Tartan 28 vs Pierson 30 for Liveaboard Couple . . .

[elliebell]

Living mostly in tropical climates and mostly anchoring/mooring, and after a year or so will be attempting a few ocean passages. Is the draft shallow enough for this on these boats? Anybody weigh in on the benefits/downsides they have experienced with either boat? Any suggestions on a better craft? Budget is between $7000-$12000. Any info on these or other options would be greatly appreciated! oh, i'm 6'4" so more headroom is a plus, but i'm okay being a little cramped

Cheers!

Rob

[Adelie]

PEARSON 30 sailboat on sailboatdata.com
TARTAN 28 sailboat on sailboatdata.com

Looking strictly at the numbers they are pretty comparable.
The P30 has a slight sail area advantage and waterline advantage so it should be marginally faster.

The Pearson is built slightly heavier for it's length. If the Tartan hull has no coring in it, the Pearson probably doesn't, then the Pearson hull will be slightly stronger. If one is cored and the other isn't then there isn't a good comparison base on weight alone. Personally I would be less interested in a cored hull, repairs are more likely and more costly.


The Tartan is wider though it has slightly less draft. The Tartan is likely to be very slightly stiffer initially but less stable ultimately. The Pearson has an advantage in capsize resistance based on the Capsize Screening Formula, which would be neither here nor there if you don't go offshore.

Layout-wise they are pretty much the same. I checked photos on Yachtworld for the Tartan.

Both have liners that will make modifications and repairs more difficult, but they may serve to keep the boat cooler or warmer by creating an insulating dead air space. Real insulation would work much better, but the liner is better than nothing.

Based strictly on what I've seen doing this brief research, I would be inclined to go with the Pearson, the summation of all the slight advantages gives the Pearson a moderate advantage overall.

[Adelie]

Is the budget, buy or buy&outfit?
Where are you?
There is a Cal33 near San Francisco for about $10k. It is built about as well, perhaps a bit better, is a lot roomier, and would be a much better performer than either.

1973 CAL Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com.

I am partial to Cal's in general and Cal 34.1's in particular. If you could find one in your price range i decent condition jump on it. Wonderfully laid out for a couple that lives aboard and cruises:
Underway or in a bumpy anchorage there are 2 quarter-berths, these have good motion, can be used without converting a settee bench every night and don't take up much cabin space.
Long galley down one side makes cooking at anchor much easier. On the downside, the sink can fill with seawater on one tack if well heeled.
Large U-shaped dinette for entertaining or spreading navigation charts.
Good sailing performance.
At least one has been round the world so built decently.

The mark 2 model had a modified rig that corrected a slight weather helm problem, but also went to single lower spreaders. If I got that model I would redo the lower shrouds as doubles.

The mark 3 model had the modified rig and also modified deck and interior. I am ambivalent about the changes.

[elliebell]

I really appreciate your input. I will give the Cal a more serious look as well. My budget is considering the craft pretty much ready to sail, maybe a few minor items to tend to. I can buy most anywhere, but would prefer to buy near Tampa Bay, Fl due to it's proximity to friends while we get ready to get underway.

[onestepcsy37]

my sailing club owns a pearson 30 which i sail on and help maintain. it's a fairly solid boat. i would look for one with a working diesel engine rather than the old atomic four that many still have. it's one weak point is the rudder which is totally unprotected and just hangs out in the water. we've bent it at least once. if you're just coastal cruising and maybe doing the bahamas it should work out fine for you.
back in the 80's a cruising couple i knew spent six months in the bahamas on their pearson 30 and had a great time.

my big problem with the tartan boats is that they use cored hulls, a big no-no for me. you might also consider the morgan 30.

[elliebell]

Like the Morgan Eveolution? I've been looking at one of those as well...

[Adelie]

That puts different spin on things. I was assuming the budget was buy only.

You are unlikely to find a turnkey boat of any reasonable size for $7-12K in the time period indicated. Given more time the odds improve. The other road you can take is to get a boat much cheaper than you have money for and put your own time and effort into bringing it up to snuff. The secondary advantage of this is you get to know your boat very well by working on it and develop the skills needed to maintain it as you cruise.

Try this boat, 1972 Cal sailboat for sale in North Carolina, it's in NC for $2800. Not Ft Lauderdale but not terribly far away either.

If you have much experience hanging out with boats get Don Casey's "Sailboat Maintenance Manual" whose first section is "Inspecting the Aging Sailboat". Read that section then visit the boat. Evaluate the boat based on what you read in that section. If there isn't anything to wrong with it, hire a surveyor. Don't think about skipping the surveyor. He/she won't get you much if any price reduction on a $2800 boat, but you will learn a lot about what the boat need repair-wise and they will probably give you an idea what it would cost to have it done or to do it yourself.

The Cal 29 has 6-0 or 6-1 headroom (I'm 6-3 so I understand the issue). This boat is liable to need some work but with a year to get ready you should be able to do it. You still get 2 quarter berths. The boat is somewhat heavier built than the Pearson or Tartan but probably not quite as good a performer, though it is still a good performer.

I personally wouldn't worry about the Atomic-4 engine, gas engines aren't as safe as diesels, but they are not dangerous per se. The Atomic 4 in particular was designed as a marine engine rather than being converted from a land-based application.

This link will show you layout and what the boat looks like: CAL 29 sailboat on sailboatdata.com

[elliebell]

buying cheaper and building up was my original plan, however, most of the feedback i've read involving similar questions steered people away from "project" boats towards a better kepts boat that might just need some minor repairs. I'm more of a DIY person anyway, which will be useful for sailing In your opinion, then, a fixer upper is a good investment if the proper steps are taken to keep an eye out for major problems?

[Adelie]

The problem is defining the difference between cosmetic repair, minor repairs and major repairs, minor upgrades and major upgrades.

That's where the surveyor comes in, he/she can give you an idea of the scope of what needs to be done. I could probably do on OK job of figuring the scope of work for myself, but I couldn't do it from afar, and I couldn't talk somebody through it from afar. Using the Casey book to pre-survey boats and eliminate the obvious duds will save you on surveying costs.

Finding the limit of what your are capable of and have the money to accomplish is something you will have to work out on your own with the help of a surveyor.

In addition to fixing items on the boat there is a certain amount of outfitting that will likely have to happen too at some expense. I can go into what you need if you are interested, but not tonight.

[onestepcsy37]

i thought i knew my old morgans but i have to admit i've never heard of the morgan 'evolution'. i'm thinking of the morgan sloops that were made in the sixties and early seventies. cal is another good boat in that range; friends of mine are currently living on a cal 34.

my sailing buddy lee just bought a c&c corvette (31 footer from the 1960's) in poor condition for $2800. it needs work. he's doing nearly all of it and saving money that way - labor is often VERY expensive in boat yards - and learning something about his boat as he goes along. but it's time consuming, so you'll have to take that into account. another couple i knew in a boatyard i was staying at took two years to rebuild an old pearson 35.

as to 'adelie's comment about atomic fours, i have to admit that i owned two boats back in the 70's that had inboard gas engines and had no problem with them. i still feel safer today with a diesel. and if you do a lot of motoring, as you might if you spent a lot of time in the intracoastal waterway, diesels are a whole lot cheaper on fuel that gas engines.

the boat we eventually bought was basically sound but cosmetically 'challenged'. we spent nearly three months cleaning her up before we took her out.

don't allow me to discourage you. keep looking, if only to gain more knowledge about boats in general; what's easy/cheap to fix, what's expensive/difficult, what you can live with, what's a deal breaker. and use this forum as a source of information about any particular boat.

as to the pearson 30 at our club, i took a good look at it today and i'm pretty satisfied that it would make a good first cruising boat. it's a 1970 model, has been refitted with a diesel, has a good sail inventory, and just been repainted. i'm guessing it's market value at under $10k. unfortunately, it's not for sale....

[drgamble]

As an owner I'm a bit biased, but the Tartan 28 is a great boat - BUT, you're not going to find a Tartan 28 in that budget. Tartan 27, perhaps, but you're dealing with a later vintage boat there, built very well, but surely in need of work in that price range.

onestepcsy37 - you're wrong with your premise that the T28 has a cored hull - where do you get this from? Let me guess, you're working off the "issues" Tartan had under a one-time owner of mid-2000 vintage boats; older Tartans were built as well as any boat out there period. I'll quote Good Old Boat magazine that the Tartan 28 was "built like a tank" - the majority of the hull above and below waterline is solid fiberglass, hand laid-up. My surveyor can attest to the build quality.

After a quick search on yachtworld Tartan 28's are going from 20-30K. Tartan 27 can be had around $10K. If your budget increases I'm more than willing to give you advice on the suitability of the T28 as a live aboard (I use mine strictly for coastal cruising but know her inside and out). Best of luck with your search.

[onestepcsy37]

drgamble - as an owner of a t28 i defer to your knowledge. i know the older tartans - the t27, t30, t34 - were solid glass. i do think the later tartans were cored but apparantly more research is required to place the actual manufacturing years.

sorry i left the tartan 30 out of the list. also an excellent sailing boat and good starter boat for cruising. waiting to cross to the bahamas last year at north palm beach we met a couple from new york who were headed to the bahamas on their tartan 30 and were pretty satisfied with it. the tartan 34 is another good old boat but i think pretty much out of the price range they're lookiin at.

[elliebell]

It seems I've been staring at way to many boat names and I meant to compare a TRITON 28 to the Pearson 30, not the TARTAN 28. Sorry for the confusion, however, all of the info I've recieved has been very helpful. Thanks!!

[Adelie]

TRITON (AEROMARINE) sailboat on sailboatdata.com
TRITON (PEARSON) sailboat on sailboatdata.com
PEARSON 30 sailboat on sailboatdata.com

There are actually 2 versions of the Triton, one built by Pearson the other by Aeromarine under licence or contract, not clear. Functionally the Aeromarine is better, they used a masthead rig instead of fractional meaning more sail area and no jumpers to support the upper mast and the cockpit coamings were molded in rather than wood, so less maintenance. Aesthetically the extra wood in the Pearson may be more desirable. There were a lot more Pearson Tritons built so that is what I will compare to the Pearson30.

The P30 has 3.5' longer waterline, but because of the long aft overhang of the Triton I would expect the difference in sailing waterline to be more like 2'. The P30 has a lot more sail area for it's displacement (17.4) than the Triton, (16.0). The P30 should be significantly faster. This is born out by PHRF ratings where the P30 is about 70sec per mile faster in average racing weather.

Comparing structural hull weights vs length and beam for each boat, the Triton seems to be somewhat more heavily built, the Aeromarine version even a bit more. Of more import is that the Triton does not have a liner, some or all the of the furniture and the cabin sole are bonded to the hull creating more 'bulkheads' in the boat. Overall I would expect the Triton to be significantly more durable than the P30, and much easier to work on given that there is no liner.

The Trinton has a cutaway full keel vs the P30's fin and spade underbody. The fin and spade contribute to the P30's speed and maneuverability in tight spaces. The full keel takes moderate and hard groundings much better and should make steering much easier underway, especially compared to the scimitar rudder of the P30.

The Triton's had a number of cabin arrangements. The most likely I believe is for the galley to be aft on both sides of the cabin, and opposing settee forward. For a couple this should be fine, offwatch person gets a main cabin bunk and in a bouncy anchorage both be main cabin bunks. Guests are normally not that common, and very few if any will make more than an overnight passage with you. In settled conditions you should be able to have 2 guests on board without anybody sleeping in the cockpit. The P30 has a quarterberth and 2 settee meaning 3 guests.

Given the P30's greater length and beam it has a significant advantage in storage capacity. Going with the Triton would mean being significantly more ruthless about deciding what personal gear to bring aboard. This does not mean that you wouldn't have to be ruthless with your personal gear, but this situation is not as tight.

The Triton may or may not sacrifice some headroom. Don't know, you would want to measure berth length on both boats too.

At least one Triton has been around the world. If you decide to go with the Triton this site, Atom Voyages | Voyaging Around the World on the Sailboat Atom, has lots of upgrade info specific to the Triton. And even if you go with a different boat, the site has lots of good upgrade ideas.

Overall I would go with the Triton, better built and very good reputation vs the P30 which I don't know the reputation of.

If you were only going to do coastal and protected water sailing the P30 would probably be fine. Going into the Caribbean the P30 would be OK though the Triton would have more than a 1' draft advantage in shallow anchorages. If you are serious about offshore the Triton really starts to be the better boat I believe.

[JonathanSail]

If you are attracted to the P30 you may also want to include the P28-1 in your searches. The P30 and P28-1 are very similar in all regards though the P28-1 is a slightly newer design and has a partial skeg (small) on the rudder and a few other differences. There were fewer P28-1's produced but there are still plenty of them around and many can be had for a great price.

Here is one that received lots of work and investment in a long-term refit:

Used 1977 Pearson 28 Sl, Stuart FL - 99875389 - BoatTrader.com

It could be a good candidate for a used/cheap atomic four transplant (what I would do given that the engine looks clean and most parts are likely good beyond the block issue) or an outboard on a bracket, etc. I believe that this boat was featured in Good Old Boat a few times, and the owner is still on the Pearson 28 group I believe so you should be able to learn all about the boats history. You can see from the photos how well equipped she is, and I believe that this boat has been for sale for a few years now. I have no interest in her sale but do know a bit of the boats story since I have a 28-1 which I'm restoring and heard about this boat on the Pearson 28 group a few years ago.

Of course now that the link has been posted on this site the boat may sell quickly?

Good luck,

Jonathan