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Old 12-02-2016, 10:00   #91
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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Ken,not sure what country you reside in over there, but we got different VAT answers from the French, the Italians, and of course the Germans. No one seemed to be on the same page, even when reading the actual regulations regarding foreign owned, operated and domesticated in their countries. The French, at least in LeHavre made a big issue about seeing the boat's VAT invoice. Even though it was an American made boat. They wanted to charge us right there for bringing it into France. The Italians in Trieste could have cared less about anything relating to VAT nor how long the boat was going to hang around the town. The Bremerhaven folks seemed to follow the law as we understood things. Maybe times have changed. Maybe the Frence have stopped picking on .
You are not liable for VAT on two conditions: (a) you are not an EU citizen or resident; AND (b) you follow the temporary import regime, which requires you to document getting the boat out of EU waters once every 18 months.

If you are an EU resident, then you have to pay VAT unless you use one of the schemes like bringing the boat with you when you move from abroad. This without regard to how the vessel if flagged.

The rules are very clear and are uniform throughout the EU, but it is true that customs officials don't always understand them.

I've never been asked for VAT receipts in 7 years of cruising here.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:03   #92
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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Once you start getting over 50', the center cockpits usually have a large "engine room." If you haven't looked at Outbounds, perhaps that is something you should consider as well. Very function driven design with a lot of systems thoroughly thought out. The 46 is on the smaller side for your needs, but has a dedicated "work room" in the aft lazarette. The 52 model is a center cockpit and has more of an engine room.

Maybe also check out Garcia yachts, they make aluminum boats in France - very very nice.
Even well over 50', you are not guaranteed to get a decent engine room. It's a key issue worth thinking hard about.

The Amel has one of the best engine rooms in boats that size, with very cool access from above. One of a number of unusual but really good features of these boats.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:23   #93
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

Greetings~
Just curious what part you "completely disagree" on? No animosity meant but did you disagree that there was extensive electrolysis? " I'm sure it isn't indicative of all Amel's"? Or that it wallows? I have used flopper stoppers in the past ( thousands of miles on a Westsail 30 years ago ) but always felt that they were straining the rig so just got used to "the roll".
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:29   #94
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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You are not liable for VAT on two conditions: (a) you are not an EU citizen or resident; AND (b) you follow the temporary import regime, which requires you to document getting the boat out of EU waters once every 18 months.

True, and can be extended to 24 months under specific conditions

If you are an EU resident, then you have to pay VAT unless you use one of the schemes like bringing the boat with you when you move from abroad. This without regard to how the vessel if flagged.

The rules are very clear and are uniform throughout the EU, but it is true that customs officials don't always understand them.

Not true, as we found out this year. The rules such as customs bond time can vary greatly from one country to another. Most countries are strict about the 18 month limit. Others allow ways to keep a boat in EU waters for many years without leaving. One needs to hire a professional in the host country to know where one stands, or things can get expensive.

I've never been asked for VAT receipts in 7 years of cruising here.

You were just lucky. Try that with a British flag sometime in southern Spain, Portugal or France.
Your note needs some clarification.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:33   #95
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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Greetings~
Just curious what part you "completely disagree" on? No animosity meant but did you disagree that there was extensive electrolysis? " I'm sure it isn't indicative of all Amel's"? Or that it wallows? I have used flopper stoppers in the past ( thousands of miles on a Westsail 30 years ago ) but always felt that they were straining the rig so just got used to "the roll".
We used flopper stoppers a lot but did not attach them to the rigging. Had two fiberglass poles that attached inboard to a deck cleat and the FS attached to the other end. Two wires(lifeline types) acted as fore and aft stabilizers(each attached to toe rail cleats). Real bendy but worked well. Had enough give so never had any sharp motions. Not very elegant. We were thinking about improving on it with a block and tackle system to raise and lower the floppers when they were out on the poles' ends. When we lost the floppers, we used plastic grates that worked as well.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:42   #96
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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Originally Posted by DDabs View Post
Once you start getting over 50', the center cockpits usually have a large "engine room." If you haven't looked at Outbounds, perhaps that is something you should consider as well. Very function driven design with a lot of systems thoroughly thought out. The 46 is on the smaller side for your needs, but has a dedicated "work room" in the aft lazarette. The 52 model is a center cockpit and has more of an engine room.

Maybe also check out Garcia yachts, they make aluminum boats in France - very very nice.
Yup, if you're looking at Amel then Outbound and Passport are also very much worth a look. Outbound has announced an aft cockpit version of the 52 that looks really intriguing. There's a brochure for it up on the Outbound web site. The 46 is one of the best boats I've ever sailed on.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:48   #97
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

Thanks I'll look into both makes.

Tom


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Old 12-02-2016, 12:58   #98
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

We are addressing different concerns.

By buying a second hand boat in EU from a private, VAT is assumed to be paid up.

Sure an invoice stating it is preferable.

When buying from a company, as it could be VAT-exempt, this becomes a necessity.

No doubt you go to some few exotic places in the Med which are extra-EU
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Old 12-02-2016, 15:49   #99
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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I've never been asked for VAT receipts in 7 years of cruising here.

You were just lucky. Try that with a British flag sometime in southern Spain, Portugal or France.
I have being trying that for the last ten years in Southern/Eastern Spain and Southern France in a British flagged boat. And a very obvious one at that.

I have never been asked for anything other than the registration document, and on the odd occasion passport (just me the skipper from a customs officer) and insurance certificate.

I have been called up often on VHF asking for registration number, number of people on board, where hailing from and destination. I have been followed by customs helicopters, and custom cutters - nearly rammed a French one once while being watched by a Spanish one. But never, have I been asked for anything to do with VAT.
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Old 12-02-2016, 16:45   #100
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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I have being trying that for the last ten years in Southern/Eastern Spain and Southern France in a British flagged boat. And a very obvious one at that.
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Old 13-02-2016, 05:30   #101
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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Your note needs some clarification.
Thanks -- yes, although the principles are the same everywhere (and must be -- it's the EU), there are some details of implementation which vary. Useful clarification.


And yes, the fact that I've never been asked for VAT receipts, doesn't mean at all, that it can't happen, and I certainly didn't intend to imply that. And remember, you have to present -- the originals!! Not copies. So I have the whole file of original VAT receipts on board at all times. Note to self -- have certified copies made to keep on land in a safe place.
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Old 13-02-2016, 05:38   #102
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

Concerning flopper stoppers and rolling at anchor --

Amel's, with a lower rig, actually suffer LESS from this, than average cruising boats of this size. In-mast furling greatly exacerbates this because of the weight aloft.

My boat rolls like a pig at anchor. I will make some flopper stoppers this year. I wouldn't worry too much about the rig if the flopper stoppers are sized appropriately.
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Old 13-02-2016, 05:55   #103
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

We anchor next to Amels nearly every night in the Med., they seem like very capable boats owned mostly by happy French cruising couples, pleased with their choice. The only downside I see, and this is a personal choice.... I don't like all the extra rigging associated with a ketch design, especially today when semi-automated sloops and cutter rigged boats can simplify things and there aren't so many lines, ropes and shrouds cluttering up the deck.

Most of today's sailing couples seem to enjoy the wide open stern areas for lounging and entertaining, the Amel is the opposit of this.
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Old 13-02-2016, 08:03   #104
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

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....... Will the isolated engine room prevent the stink of diesel from filling the cabin? ....

Tom
Never have I had diesel smell inside the hull. Perhaps lucky but if the temperature is comfortable, I work with the engine lid closed.

Regarding a 3rd child.. fit in fine but with compromises. The SM is meant for a couple to cruise the planet; with a visiting couple occasionally.

GL in your search
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Old 13-02-2016, 08:10   #105
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Re: Talk Me Out of an Amel

The best way to keep diesels smells from entering the cabin(s) is to suck air into the boat, not force air out of the boat.
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