Surveying a Boat on the Hard

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Moody46CC

Most surveys do both. If the boat is in the water, survey them sea trial; if originally on the hard, survey then splash and sea trial. Need to do both--survey, haul out inspection and sea trial.

Agreed.

The hull is like the most important thing the surveyor looks at... and you can only see it on the hard. The sea trial is important to see that the engine actually works (not just starts), steering, sails, etc.

Having said that, I've bought (and sold) 8 big sailboats...and I never had a survey or a seatrial on any of them. Most were bought sight unseen over the internet, or after viewing on the hard. I will admit to doing my own "survey" on each, but I'm no professional, and certainly no insurance company would accept my finding.

Buying a well known brand and model, of known performance, and known maintenance issues, is a safe way to go. For example, it would be hard to find an old Pearson or Tanzer with blisters...and hard to find a C&C that hasn't had blisters.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

If you do get to the sea trial stage I would definitely insist on getting the sails out of storage and on for the trial. Also if unsure of the sails' condition or expected life I would bring them to a sailmaker or at least to someone knowledgeable enough whom I would trust to give their opinion.

New sails, if required, can easily cost thousands of dollars, depending on the size and style of the boat. Sails are expensive.

[roland stockham]

In most cases what is called a 'survey' is in fact an insurance valuation. It tell the insure what the market value of the boat is so that they can provide cover without getting their fingers burnt. If you want to now how good the boat is you need a marine engineers report on the hull, a separate report on the engine and machinery and a rig survey by a sail-maker/rigger on the sails and rigging. whether it is worth the high cost depends on the price of the boat. What most of us do is get an experience friend to have a look and hope for the best. It is very important to know what the surveyor is looking at and even more what they are NOT. Many people get potential new boats surveyed, get a 'clean' result then find the sails, rig and engine are shot. They complain loudly that 'the surveyor should have told me' but they only paid for a valuation and external hull/superstructure inspection (standard ins survey) and it did not cover any of theses things.
Don't get me wrong this is not a 'dig' at surveyors. Many are excellent it is what we commission from them and the price we are prepared to pay that is the problem. A full rig/sail survey on a 45' boat will likely take 2-3 days including taking the sails to the loft, getting the mast down or at least getting aloft in a man-basket and a sea trial. At $75per/hr that is $1,800 plus expenses. A 'full' survey is going to run to several thousand not a couple of hundred. Most of use trust are instincts and yes, do occasionally get our fingers burnt.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

In most cases what is called a 'survey' is in fact an insurance valuation. It tell the insure what the market value of the boat is so that they can provide cover without getting their fingers burnt. If you want to now how good the boat is you need a marine engineers report on the hull, a separate report on the engine and machinery and a rig survey by a sail-maker/rigger on the sails and rigging. whether it is worth the high cost depends on the price of the boat. What most of us do is get an experience friend to have a look and hope for the best. It is very important to know what the surveyor is looking at and even more what they are NOT. Many people get potential new boats surveyed, get a 'clean' result then find the sails, rig and engine are shot. They complain loudly that 'the surveyor should have told me' but they only paid for a valuation and external hull/superstructure inspection (standard ins survey) and it did not cover any of theses things.
Don't get me wrong this is not a 'dig' at surveyors. Many are excellent it is what we commission from them and the price we are prepared to pay that is the problem. A full rig/sail survey on a 45' boat will likely take 2-3 days including taking the sails to the loft, getting the mast down or at least getting aloft in a man-basket and a sea trial. At $75per/hr that is $1,800 plus expenses. A 'full' survey is going to run to several thousand not a couple of hundred. Most of use trust are instincts and yes, do occasionally get our fingers burnt.

So much misinformation here that warrants a reply.

The most commonly used survey is the hull survey which, as it implies, relates to the general seaworthiness of the hull and superstructure, not merely the yacht's value, but its general condition. Its cost is based on boat size, not price.

A rigging survey is generally a matter of hours, not days.

An engine survey, same.

Sails, same.

Getting "an experienced friend" to take a free look at the boat is worth nothing to the bank or insurance company (or buyer). And is a very foolish substitute for a professional survey.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

So much misinformation here that warrants a reply.

The most commonly used survey is the hull survey which, as it implies, relates to the general seaworthiness of the hull and superstructure, not merely the yacht's value, but its general condition. Its cost is based on boat size, not price.

A rigging survey is generally a matter of hours, not days.

An engine survey, same.

Sails, same.

Getting "an experienced friend" to take a free look at the boat is worth nothing to the bank or insurance company (or buyer). And is a very foolish substitute for a professional survey.

+1 ...... from a surveyor

[Ribbit]

Should be able to find quite a list of SAMS surveyors quite close to you here:

US Surveyors by State

I found it useful.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

So much misinformation here that warrants a reply.

The most commonly used survey is the hull survey which, as it implies, relates to the general seaworthiness of the hull and superstructure, not merely the yacht's value, but its general condition. Its cost is based on boat size, not price.

A rigging survey is generally a matter of hours, not days.

An engine survey, same.

Sails, same.

Getting "an experienced friend" to take a free look at the boat is worth nothing to the bank or insurance company (or buyer). And is a very foolish substitute for a professional survey.

"An experienced friend's" look is usually not in lieu of but just a 1st step to a real survey. At least that's how it always worked for me. Also it is very useful in checking one's "oohs and aahhs" of the initial enamoration with the boat's looks against the hard reality.

Also as my surveyor once told me that if one is looking among 30+ year old affordable boats the main goal is to look for major structural problems. The minor problems/deficiencies are inevitable and are to be expected on a boat of this age and price range. And the biggest value of such survey to the buyer is to use the found deficiencies with the seller as bargaining chips (a professionally produced report sure looks more convincing to the seller than a say so of "an experienced friend").

For old boats the insurance concern is secondary as most insurance companies will not fully insure 30+ year old boats at a reasonable (or even unreasonable) rates and one is left with having just the enviro and damage to others portions of the policy to contend with.

[CHM]

Unless the boat is a project with known major issues, spend the time and money to get a full survey and a sea trial. Engage the current owner if possible and learn as much as possible about the boat. Older boats likely have had various revisions from being original with each vessel being unique. If a sea trial is not possible, ask the hard question: Why?


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Hereweare]

If you are using a Broker, you could have a certain amount of money held in escro. Usually specific limitations would be written up. I just used this on the last one I sold. It seemed that everyone was comfortable with it. The buyer ended up very happy in the end.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You can do extreme damage to a diesel with a waterlift type muffler doing this if you don't know exactly what you are doing. I would not recommend this to an amateur.

Yeah, I hear you. I just open the top of the water strainer, stick a hose in that, let it overflow to the bilge, once the engine is running, adjust the flow to where it doesn't overflow much. (assume the Bilge pump is working!)

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You can do extreme damage to a diesel with a waterlift type muffler doing this if you don't know exactly what you are doing. I would not recommend this to an amateur.

Yeah, I hear you. I just open the top of the water strainer, stick a hose in that, let it overflow to the bilge, once the engine is running, adjust the flow to where it doesn't overflow much. (assume the Bilge pump is working!)
This way you are not "pressurizing" the system.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You can do extreme damage to a diesel with a waterlift type muffler doing this if you don't know exactly what you are doing. I would not recommend this to an amateur.

Very true:

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

Winterizing A Diesel Engine On The Hard | SailboatOwners.com Forums