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Old 03-07-2012, 10:49   #1
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Suggestions Wanted for New Boat Purchase

Hi folks,

My wife and I are considering buying our first big boat after chartering a few over the years. I'm doing my research but I'm more of a "hands on" kind of guy so looking through all the boats for sale doesn't help me narrow the field very well. I would appreciate some input from those of you with more experience. From there perhaps I can find something reasonably priced and go check it out. WE haven't nailed down and exact price range. I'm thinking around $100,000 USD but we might have to go to something like $150,000 to get what we are happy with. I would prefer a used, newer model boat..., say 5-10 years old.

We just came off a charter of a 2005 42' Catalina Mark II and while it was nice, we want something a little smaller. We had a benateau in the past that we liked beter. I was originally thinking a 32' but my research so far is pointing me at boats in the 35-37' range. To aid in finances we are thinking we will put the boat into charter for at-least several years. We are also thinking our use would be us, our two young boys, and then some guests on board for a weeks sail at a time. Combine both of those items and we seem to need a 3 stateroom setup. Our sailing would mostly be in and around the San Juan islands, and up into the Canadian islands. I suspect in 10 years we will sell and buy something different, perhaps not in charter at that point.

There is a Barvaria 36 in the area for sale that looks interesting. I think I came across a 35' Catalina with three cabins as well, although I haven't been able to find it again so perhaps I got myself confused.

Any favorites or inputs (like telling us 3 staterooms on that size boat is just not going to work) apprecaited.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:06   #2
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

My $.02

You pay a premium to have all that 'nice' stuff. Then, if you are a 'hands on' guy you'll throw away half of that 'stuff' and replace it with new stuff that you like. The other half will break and you'll replace that as well.

So, I think you're far better off buying a clean, old boat without the 'stuff'
For me personally, a nice Cal 40 is tough to beat. Load it up with top of the line 'stuff' and you're in it WAY less than 150.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:40   #3
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

Does "Cal" mean the same as "Catalina" or is it something different?



I'm a little bit of a perfectionist. I would really love to be able to pick and choose every component on my boat, investing money in things I care about and saving money on things I care less. For instance, a good stereo I would put some cash into, but my stove/oven just needs to heat food and doesn't need to be anything special. I don't seem to have a good "menu" option, however, so I assume I will do what you suggest, and replace things over time with better parts that I like. If I can find a solid used boat I'm willing to upgrade components as needed and would prefer that over something that already has what someone else things is top of the line.


I just found out about "Moorings" today based on some other forum posts. I'm confused, are they a charter company, or a boat maker, or both?
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Old 03-07-2012, 13:00   #4
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

If you are going to put it into charter you need the newer boat. You arent going to charter a real old boat through a charter company. 37 ft is a little tough getting 3 staterooms, you are probably looking at an excharter boat to get that and there areant an abundance in the PNW. It's possible some of the charter companies up here have an owner that wants out of his boat though... maybe inquire?
the Moorings is a charter company that has boats built to their specifications for charter.
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Old 03-07-2012, 13:04   #5
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

I have seen an analysis that clearly shows for a working family that chartering instead of owning is less expensive and gets you more time on the water per year.
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Old 03-07-2012, 13:09   #6
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlySailor View Post
I'm a little bit of a perfectionist. I would really love to be able to pick and choose every component on my boat, investing money in things I care about and saving money on things I care less. For instance, a good stereo I would put some cash into, but my stove/oven just needs to heat food and doesn't need to be anything special. I don't seem to have a good "menu" option, however, so I assume I will do what you suggest, and replace things over time with better parts that I like. If I can find a solid used boat I'm willing to upgrade components as needed and would prefer that over something that already has what someone else things is top of the line.
Based on the above comment I think putting your boat into charter would make you crazy. Every year in charter is equivalent to 5 - 10 years of private ownership. All your nice stuff would be for naught.
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Old 03-07-2012, 13:19   #7
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I have seen an analysis that clearly shows for a working family that chartering instead of owning is less expensive and gets you more time on the water per year.
It likely is, the cost of ownership is high for sure unless you use your boat alot. The hard part is when you just want to go on a moments notice, or when you realize it's going to cost you a couple grand to go out... then you start thinking maybe you wont go!
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Old 03-07-2012, 13:27   #8
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

LakeSuperior – Your point is a good one. I suspect on this first, in charter, boat I would look at some failing part, like a GPS or Cabin heater or such, do my homework on exactly what I wanted, weigh that with the fact that it will be on a chartered boat, then choose something that is perhaps cheaper and more suited for the heavy charter use. It is a way for me to “get my feet wet” in a way. However, I may end up having the best outfitted charter boat too. The wife is good at keeping me in check, fortunately.


I would be curious to see your analysis info. Have a pointer to it? I am hoping that by being in charter I will have the flexibility to say “what, the fridge died? Go replace it with ZZZ and charge me” then let the charter company do the work while I slave away to make sure I have the $ to pay for it. At some point I will have more time than money, but for the moment I am hoping that I have enough money to save my time and let the Charter company handle some things so I can pick and choose what upgrades I want to do myself. I might be fooling myself..., time will tell (and you can all laugh at me in a few years).


Cheechako – I am concerned about the ability to go out spontaneously..., that may be what eventually gets us out of the charter game. However, I may be content to just go stay aboard some weekend between charters and never leave the dock, just work on small projects and such and enjoy boat life for a night or two.
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Old 03-07-2012, 15:19   #9
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

Anything bought for rental (boats included - especially?!) need to be as idiot proof as possible and for that less is more. Less to break, wear out or otherwise f#ck up.

Put a "nice" boat into Charter and it will likely break your heart. Not to say don't do it, especially if that is a way that works for you time and money wise. Will also likely need to compromise on boat choice, likely something newer (or new) which means likely smaller than you could (for the same money) not only because folks paying good money for charter want new - but also because the Charter company don't want to be doing your boat's mid-life refit for you - piece by piece.

Will also likely need to have as many berths as possible (bums on berths makes more money) - albeit sounds like that might not be such a problem for your plans. Personally I would never buy a boat wrapped around the needs of occassional guests, certainly not to the extent of providing a spare (guest) cabin, albeit I appreciate that things in the US termed "State Rooms" are often referred to over here as quarter berths. or storage. Fair enough that kid (and you) gets own "Cabin" - on that size boat I would suggest that the guests make do with the saloon, even if the price of that is making up the berth every night - but it's only a week or so. If they want more room they can splash out for accomdation ashore.
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Old 03-07-2012, 15:32   #10
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

David_Old_Jersey Ė Thanks for the input. Iím in ďdiscussionsĒ with my wife on the number of staterooms. Having just been on a 42 with 3 rooms, that was nice. However, I think trying to go smaller we really should go to two staterooms and a salon option. So far..., Iím not wining in that discussion.
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Old 03-07-2012, 15:35   #11
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

Iím looking at the Cal 40, but those are a bit older and likely harder to setup for charter. Does anyone have any input, good or bad, on the Barvaria 36 3 stateroom design? What is the common thought on Moorings made boats? Are they worth it or better to get a used Benateau and then charter with someone else?
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Old 03-07-2012, 15:39   #12
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

Moorings don't make boats. You simply buy them via Moorings, boat models and types will likely depend on area - but will be what Moorings want (and possibly even Beneteaus). The upside is that cuts down the confusion from too much choice!

Whether Moorings or someone else is used for Charter, if that is the route you want to go then first step is to chat to them (or at least Google up the existing fleet in the area you want her kept so you know what you are looking at).
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Old 03-07-2012, 15:40   #13
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

just a quick shot at costs comparing owning a boat and chartering one when you want to go out:
Moorage: $4600 per year
Botom paint etc every 2 years: $500 per year
Insurance: $300 per year?
Misc "must repairs": $1000 per year?
Payments on $100k: $7800 per year?
Total ownership cost per year: $14200
(these are just guesses really)
You can probably charter for 7-10 times a year for that.
OTOH, if you put your boat in charter, much of that is paid.... Not sure.... does Moorings even have a charter base in the PNW? I think the Moorings gets boats out of their fleet after a few years. Smaller local companies will leave good older boat in use.
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Old 03-07-2012, 15:43   #14
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

Moorings does not make boats. Beneteau and Jenneau make models just for them. There is another recent thread about whether those boats are good buys when they are sold used.
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Old 03-07-2012, 16:15   #15
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

I will look up the other thread on Moorings boats post charter. Tanks for the clarity on Moorings.


Anacortes Yacht Club is who I have used, and they are a Moorings partner I guess, with only about 5 of their sailboats being in the Moorings program. I may have to talk more details with them. I’m sure there is a cost to being a Charter with them vs. a Moorings Charter.


The sheet from AYC gave me some rough numbers to work with and the estimate is about $36k income in the first year (increaseing over 5 years), but with commissions, cleanings and inspections, etc. that comes to an “income” to me of about $23K per year. From that I would have to deduct the bottom paint, repairs, insurance, moorage, etc. If we can trust these general numbers, and your estimates, that would theoretically mean I would actually make about $8k a year profit on the boat. I find that unrealistic and I expect it to cost me either in more wear and tear or in lack or charters from the “ideal” situation, but when the yearly cost to me is around $5K out of pocket to own a boat I could pull from charter when the time suits me, I start getting excited and wanting to buy today!
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