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Old 03-07-2012, 22:29   #16
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

While not dead on accurate, I did some rough numbers to help me in my planning and built a spreadsheet so I can adjust things as I get better estimates. It should be closer to accurate than my prior "back of the hand" numbers and says my outlay would be in the realm of $1,500 per month. This would be about $1000 less/month than if I did not charter. That leaves open the question of "is chartering worth it".

Much to ponder, but the Barvaria 36' is still looking interesting. It is relatively cheap yet 3 staterooms under 40'. I may have to pay it a visit.
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Old 03-07-2012, 23:23   #17
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Who manages only $1000 pa for repairs on a 40' boat? My 30' boat ate way more than that, and that's doing the work myself. I think you might want to take a poll and get some good numbers. I cringe at what the 40'er is going to consume...

As to whether chartering is worth or not, that's a personal choice. Personally, I'm hesitant to hand over the keys to my baby to people I don't know to do with as they please. And based on the conditions of the boats I've chartered, I'm not handing any of them a wad of cash and saying "fix it."

I'd suggest getting a starter boat. Something like a Catalina 30. It's what we did. That way we learned a lot, found out whether ownership was for us, and even though we're going to take a bath on the resale (for arguments sale) we still will only be out the cost of a few nice charters.

JRM

-- oh, and I second the notion that guests can deal with the salon. Never make a boat decision on what someone else wants.
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Old 03-07-2012, 23:35   #18
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

44 foot sailing cat insurance = 3,200 buckerooneys!!!!
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Old 03-07-2012, 23:52   #19
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlySailor View Post
I just found out about "Moorings" today based on some other forum posts. I'm confused, are they a charter company, or a boat maker, or both?
As far as we (or any of us!?) understand, The Moorings is a subsidiary of the TUI Travel Group, a listed UK company that also trades (and sells boats) as TUI Marine. The Moorings do not make boats directly, but they seem to be very closely associated with boat builders.

The Office mentioned that "Beneteau and Jenneau make models just for..." Moorings; we're not sure about that, but we assume The Office has a sound source for the remark.

We are, however, confident that Robertson & Caine (aka Leopard) make boats for Moorings in an arrangement going back >17 years and including supply of >800 vessels. At one stage there was talk of shared ownership between The Moorings (and Sunsail, another large global yacht charter operation) and Robertson & Caine, but whether that is actually the case now is not clear on the information publicly available...to us anyway!
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Old 04-07-2012, 00:11   #20
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

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Who manages only $1000 pa for repairs on a 40' boat? My 30' boat ate way more than that, and that's doing the work myself. I think you might want to take a poll and get some good numbers. I cringe at what the 40'er is going to consume...
Well, I was calculateing for a 36 foot, and hopefully less than 10 years old so less "normal" repairs and hopefully cheaper. I figured things like new sails, new engine, etc. would be occasional hits but didn't factor in to part of my normal monthly operateing costs. Based on your feedback I may need to re-think that.
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Old 04-07-2012, 00:29   #21
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

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44 foot sailing cat insurance = 3,200 buckerooneys!!!!
We wish...it's 5,600 (Aussie) buckerooneys here......altho ours is a business (floating gallery) policy cover, and perhaps a different sum insured...

Who's your insurer?
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Old 04-07-2012, 00:34   #22
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

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We wish...it's 5,600 (Aussie) buckerooneys here......altho ours is a business (floating gallery) policy cover, and perhaps a different sum insured...

Who's your insurer?
GENERALI ---310,000 Euro with first 4600Euro of any claim paid by us.....
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:09   #23
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Re: Suggestions wanted for new boat purchase

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Originally Posted by GrizzlySailor View Post
While not dead on accurate, I did some rough numbers to help me in my planning and built a spreadsheet so I can adjust things as I get better estimates. It should be closer to accurate than my prior "back of the hand" numbers and says my outlay would be in the realm of $1,500 per month. This would be about $1000 less/month than if I did not charter. That leaves open the question of "is chartering worth it".

Much to ponder, but the Barvaria 36' is still looking interesting. It is relatively cheap yet 3 staterooms under 40'. I may have to pay it a visit.
You could charter ~4 weeks per year on the above numbers.

Redo the calculation so that you estimate the "cost per day" of boat use. Most owners that still have jobs take a two or 3 week vacation on the boat. The remainder is day sailing. Figure you day sail one day per week average after the first year of ownership. In the US most people don't sail in the winter months so figure May through September so you get 20 days here.

Don't forget to add in the cost of your labor for general maintenance. Changing oil, impellers, washing the salt off, repairs, waxing, painting, winterization, etc., etc. Your time has value remember instead of doing this stuff you could be sailing. Waxing and painting is 40 manhours.

Add depreciation of boat and gear and the cost of money (even if you paid cash). Lift in and lift out twice per year $1000.00. Add the cost of replacing gear that wears out.

Make sure you give credit to cruising on a new roomy charter boat valued at $300,000 to $400,000 versus the cost of the one you purchase.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:45   #24
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My experience as a charterer is I pick Moorings or Sunsail and I get a plastic boat with basic systems, simple sailplan that works, is clean and less than 5 years old. Which 35 foot Benne or Jenne I pick doesnt matter because they are the same.

When I charter second tier boats they are older and in various states of repair. As a charterer I specify what boat I want after the first visit. By the second time I have eyeballed the fleet and decided which boats I won't charter. If the boat of choice is not available I move on.

The point is if you go moorings or sunsail, they know what they are doing, they know their market, and they know what sells.

If you go with a used boat make sure you have a charterer that will take it. My strong advice is dont put any fancy system on it that you expect to have living at the end of the charter period. Electronics, watermakers, charging systems will all be destroyed by charterers that dont know how to use them and wont pay a premium to have them on board. I bring my iPad for navigation duties, I tank the water I need and I run the engine as much as I want to charge the batteries. Every other charterer does the same.

If you go used you better have something clean and functional and "normal" or it wont get chartered. I was actually offered a deep discount at a second tier place to take q boat I didn't want because the boat wasnt grtting any time and the owner was getting pissed. I passed on the discount.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:48   #25
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Re: Suggestions Wanted for New Boat Purchase

Good points and good things to think about. I apprecaite all teh valuable insite.
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Old 05-07-2012, 15:11   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlySailor

Well, I was calculateing for a 36 foot, and hopefully less than 10 years old so less "normal" repairs and hopefully cheaper. I figured things like new sails, new engine, etc. would be occasional hits but didn't factor in to part of my normal monthly operateing costs. Based on your feedback I may need to re-think that.
Doesn't matter how old, it's going to be more than $83 each month. Heck, bounce a winch handle over the side and you just blew a months maintenance (amazing what a little steep swell can do). Pop a block, another month. One of your guests tries to use the AIS antenna as a handhold to stop their fall, another month's budget gone. That's before we start talking zincs, cleaners, varnish, oil changes, and bottom paint.

You might swing $83 a month on pure maintenance if you never use the boat or jury-rig anything that breaks with lashing line and duct tape. But if you want to actually use your boat, and keep it nice, it'll cost.

JRM

If I was a better boater it might cost less, but I seem to keep learning these expensive lessons...
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Old 05-07-2012, 16:32   #27
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Re: Suggestions Wanted for New Boat Purchase

I have actually budgeted $150/month average, but that is sounding low still. I'm distracting from my own thread, but would $250 be more expected..., $500?
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Old 05-07-2012, 17:59   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzlySailor
I have actually budgeted $150/month average, but that is sounding low still. I'm distracting from my own thread, but would $250 be more expected..., $500?
Take a look at the cruising on 500 a month thread. Tons of opinion and information in that one. My 26 footer runs $400 a month all up including mooring and insurance over the last 5 years. Major purchases include new genny, new forestay, new traveler, new head. I need to drop about $3-4k in the engine so the monthly average is gonna go up a bit.
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Old 05-07-2012, 18:28   #29
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Re: Suggestions Wanted for New Boat Purchase

The big question on whether or not to put a boat in charter, own a boat or just charter a boat is how much use will you get out of it. If it is in charter, what will you do at the end of the charter program? And how are you paying for it?

We bought a boat in the moorings program because it allows us to charter at a much lower cost, upgrade at a low cost and pays a good portion of our boat off. We intend to take it at the end of the program and do some cruising. Possibly selling it to upgrade to a catamaran, but if that's not in the budget, we'll cruise with it. If we weren't going to do this or renew in the program at the end, then it likely wouldn't make sense for us.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, I'd be happy to discuss further.
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Old 05-07-2012, 18:29   #30
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Re: Suggestions Wanted for New Boat Purchase

I'll take a look at the other thread. I'm line iteming the mooreage, insurance, loan payment, etc. seperetly. I'm also not including the big items like engine genny, head, etc. For monthly I'm thinking more like lost winch handles, new tie off line, replace a fender, engine oil, etc.
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