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Old 27-10-2006, 13:00   #1
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Strong boat with enclosed rear cabin

I've looked in the achive and can't find anything specifically on this topic, so here goes.

I'm the very happy owner of a Pearson 10M, but I'm thinking of moving up a size. Here's the situation:
- I have a wife and two small boys, we're going to spend a season in Mexico as a "trial run"
- I think there's a reasonable chance we'll decide to carry-on from there to points unknown
- my boat is lots of fun, in good shape, and I'm told is seaworthy enough to take me from Tacoma to Mexico and back. But to Tahiti? Also I'd like the extra privacy of 2 cabins with doors on them for when we're living on it.
- budget: $50,000 to $80,000
- size: 34 to 44 ft (the budget will likely limit size to about 40 ft)

What boats should I be considering that have a door closing off the rear cabin, good sailing ability, can be single-handed (when sailing with little kids, the "admiral" is often busy and unable act as crew!) and are good and strong?

Please suggest names to this list and/or comment on any I've suggested. Most of these are mid-1980's to be within budget:

Niagara 35 (my front-runner right now)
Cascade 36
Pearson 424
Pearson 36-2 (tri-cabin)
Wauquiez Hood 38 (pushing the budget envelope!)
Catalina 36

Thanks for any help,

Craig
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Old 27-10-2006, 13:21   #2
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Aloha Craig,
There is a fellow in your area with a Cascade 42 that has an aft cabin. They would be in your price range and have the privacy you are asking for. Very seaworthy. It sounds like a huge boat but because of the narrow 11' 2" beam does not have the interior space you might think of a 42, however, has the speed of a 42 because of its 34' waterline. The owner of Tabula Rasa is Stevek on this forum. You might do a search for him and get together if you want to see what they look like.
My personal feeling is that although your living space is a little tight, you have the perfect size boat for all purposes.
Peasons are open ocean seaworthy, Catalina might be on the edge but good for coastal work.
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Old 27-10-2006, 14:05   #3
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I think your budget is going to limit your choices. To get a really good boat in great condition and have budget to update or refit a few items wont be easy. You will need some luck and hard work. I think it may come down to taking the list of many boats and looking at the ones you can actually examine and make an offer on. The ones in the best condition will probably be the cheapest overall choice. I think if you just plug your budget into Yachtworld some patterns will begin to emerge. Early 1980's boats are likely to need some work and maybe some extra money.

I would look at boats just beyond your budget as well so you'll better uinderstand what boats are in your budget.

Look also at displacement and tankage . You'll need to carry a lot of more stuf stuff. Something in the 15,000 range is maybe the very low edge of what you'll need. 18,000 may be more realistic. A few extra feet of water line is never a bad idea. Just going up and down the coats won't require as much as offshore will.

I would think about staying with the current idea of a season in Mexico and just see how well you can solve all the issues of traveling with a family for an extended time. That process is perhaps the most important and has almost nothing to do with the boat. How you fair in that test trial I think will answer more of your boat questions and then let you decide how you can go farther. Choosing the "correct boat" is maybe the easiset issue to solve compared to all the rest. Better to focus on this first adventure and not start planning the second just now.

A Bayfield 36 just makes your budget too.
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Old 27-10-2006, 14:16   #4
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Hello Craig:

Stick to your budget. I had the plan of doing the same thing with a test boat and sticking to the W coast of Mexico. Problem was that I fellin love with a boat that was alot more expensive a Sceptre 41. Perhaps we'll meet up in Mexico. I'm figuring on being there in a two or three years kids current ages are 8 yr old boy and 10 yr old girl. You might look at the Freya 39. It is a cult boat but sails well and bomb proof. They can be had in the upper end of that price range.
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Old 27-10-2006, 14:46   #5
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Think Liz and Andy Copeland...

on their Beneteau First 38.

Check out the following:

http://www.aboutcruising.com/

http://www.beneteauusa.com/sail/prev.../first_375.php

and,

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=64229&url=

and,

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...&pbsint=&ps=30

Cheers,

s/v HyLyte
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Old 27-10-2006, 15:12   #6
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And another thought...

Another one to consider is the Sparkman-Stevens design that was built as the Northstar 80/20 or the Hughes 40 or the Swallowcraft "Swift 40".

I am a bit (OK, a LOT) prejudiced because I have one, but if you can find a good one is sill meet your list of desirerable features.

Bill
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Old 27-10-2006, 18:36   #7
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Keep the ideas flowing :)

Great advice so far, keep 'em coming.

Bill, I see a boat like yours for sale in Puerto Vallarta right now. It's location would be ideal 3 years from now! In event, I'll look into it.

Paul, your points are well taken. I have already done lots of camping, backcountry skiing, backpacking, travelling and 2-to-10 day long sailing trips with my wife and family. There will no doubt be an adjustment period but I have enough experience that I'm confident we'll get it figured out and enjoy it. The main reason the Mexico trip is a "trial" is that my wife is very career focussed and although she loves sailing, she's not convinced that she can be out of "the game" for long. She as much an adventure-junkie as me, so I think she'll realize that the benefits of cruising for a few years outweigh the costs. My secondary goal (i.e. an offshore capable boat) is to remove any obstacles in case she gives a thumbs up when were down there (shhhh... she might be listening!). Anyway, I recognize the boat is only part of the picture.

JohnL do you mean my current boat (33') is the prefect size, or a Cascade 42 is perfect. I have to admit that the idea of docking a 42 footer is daunting, but I suppose I'd get a hang of it after enough time and gelcoat.

I've added them all to my list...

Craig
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Old 27-10-2006, 21:13   #8
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Aloha Craig,
What I meant was the you already have the Pearson 33 which I think is near the perfect size for any purpose. Could go as long as 36 but why not try your boat? Just add a few things you think you might need, i. e. door wherever you want it. You could save the money you would spend on a bigger boat for a cruising kitty and then spend a few nights in a resort from time to time to separate you from the kids.
Would you be spending a whole lot of time on the boat except for while sleeping?
Kind Regards,
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Old 28-10-2006, 01:18   #9
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Um.. I'd be remiss not to point out that the boat I'm selling fits your bill and only misses your price range by $9K.

It's close to sold right now, but if they buyer flakes out or something, you are welcome to it:

45' Hirsh Gulfstar, Pictures, $89,900! (ssullivan's boat)
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Old 29-10-2006, 23:46   #10
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Morgan 36/7/9 and 41 Out Islands and classics offer dual cabins.

Keep your quarter shady,
Aaron N.
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Old 30-10-2006, 11:58   #11
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Sean

Your boat's beautiful. I'd be very tempted if it was over here on the west coast. My guess is $10,000 to ship it cross-country (?).

BTW, good luck with fatherhood. It's more than a little challenging but has it's rewards. Like hearing "Daddy's home!!!"

Craig
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Old 02-11-2006, 14:38   #12
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don't know if you get them in your neck of the woods, but an Adams 40 should fit your description and your budget. Typically these have a centre cockpit (i.e. with aft double cabin), often shoal draft. Good crusing boats.
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Old 08-11-2006, 19:01   #13
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Peterson 44 or Kelly peterson (needing work)
Halberg Rassey 35 (mid 80s)
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Old 08-11-2006, 19:13   #14
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Cheoy Lee 38, Ray Richards design. The 41 would also work. I don't think the galley is as seakindly. and both have bunk beds in the forepeak. plus a quarter berth opesit the main cabin.
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Old 11-12-2006, 11:41   #15
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Update and Results

Hi All,

I wanted to post this because while people often talk about the how heavier ketches perform in qualitative terms, there's a shortage of hard numbers out there.

After looking a lot on the market, my shortlist was narrowed to a Northstar 80/20 (aka Hughes 40) and a Beneteau Evasion 37 pilothouse. I inspected both and bought the latter. Both are ketches (not a criteria of mine, but I wasn't averse to ketches either).

Before anyone gives me a hard time about "production" boats not being up to the task, the Evasion is rated as "offshore" by the EU and is very well built. They are European models (I think there's very few in North America) but you can see some on yachtworld in France and the Med.

The Northstar was a very nice and extremely solid boat. I was amazed how well it sailed in light air. The test sail was done in 5 to 8 knots of true wind, and we got 4 knots of boat speed when closehauled and 3 knots when the wind was about 30 degrees from dead astern. Not bad for a 27,000 lbs ketch! It also tacked through 100 degrees over ground.

The test sail for the Evasion hasn't happened yet but since it has 2 feet more keel depth (higher aspect ratio too), weighs 18,000 lbs and has 100 square feet more sail area, it ought to perform better in light to moderate winds.

In the end my decision came down to the fact that both boats would do the job, but I liked the pilothouse, interior layout and expected better light air perfomance of the Evasion.

Craig
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