Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-06-2015, 16:47   #16
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

That much stored below deck is a fire hazard for a start. Yeah I know Dockhead said it isn't and he's right it won't combust like petrol etc. But fires on vessels are said to be the biggest destroyer of boats throught the world. Just imagine having a fire that your just getting on top of when it reaches stored diesel. You would loose the battle very quickly. Just think what a fireman would recommend if he had a look at your boat and seen all that fuel stored in lockers everywhere.

I have 20ltr plastic fuel tank in a locker that's inside. I feed my diesel heater with it. But if there is a fire ive got it in a place that I can easily remove it from an outside locker. It's also secured in a bracket so if I have a knock down, I won't have fuel going everywhere which everyone has said I won't get the smell out if it leaks and soaks into any wood.

Apart from an appropriate fire resistant appropriately attached or anchored purpose built fuel tank, store all your fuel above deck. And as someone else suggested install a filler cap from the deck. I heard some one a few years ago was doing what your doing through an open hatch and used the 'hold' on the filler and then left it for a few minutes. When he remembered to check it, he had filed half his bilges with diesel. I can imagine this happening. Though, I use the same filler now and they have removed the auto hold thing on it.
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 17:11   #17
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Australia
Boat: Norfolk 43
Posts: 17
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

Our tank is in the keel. The filling point for the tank is inside under the salon sole. When crossing the equator in the Pacific we have often bought a 44 (200lt) drum and placed it in the cockpit, then used a siphon to fill the tank in the keel. The indigenous inhabitants of where ever we have ended up have always be grateful for the empty drum. In areas where there is an increased risk of bad weather interspersed with calms (Aleutians, etc) where there is very limited fuel stations we have used plastic 20lt jerry cans (we carry 18) which are stowed below decks, mainly in the aft lazarette although occasional some on the forward cabin sole if we thought we would be using them very soon. We pour the jerry can contents directly into the tank. We have been doing this for over 25 years and way over 100,000nm with the filling operation being carried out mostly at sea and we have never spilt more than a dribble of fuel which has been immediately wiped up and never have we had any untoward smell of diesel in the cabin.

So a few further thoughts.
1) The above is personal experience. We have never had water in our fuel and after a complete refit, (I mean complete refit, right back to a bare hull with ballast) we have installed the same fill arrangement below the salon sole because it has worked so well all these years.
2) It is true that you see vessels with a large number of jerry cans on deck (I counted 45 on one once. That's 900kgs stuck on deck) but definitely the majority of longer distance cruisers carry them below deck. It's just that you don't see them down there and have no idea that they carry any.
3) Having jerry cans loose on the sole somewhere is not seamanlike, just laziness. They should be secured. Once off Greenland, when we were knocked upside down, we had three on the forward cabin sole and although they didn't leak a drop one did leave a hole in the deck head lining where the sharp edge of the screw top lid hit.
4) A place to store them when fill is a matter for each individual vessel and would be better worked out by trial. For us our 14m yacht sails better, albeit slower, with then stored right aft. Your vessel may react differently.
5) We only carry them all fill when we feel we need to, so seldom do they sit with fuel in them for any great length of time. We do add an appropriate amount of additive to each can when filling. An antifungal in the tropics or an anticoagulant in the high latitudes just to be on the safe side.

Hope this is of some help to you.

One further thing. I have had yachts with deck fills. They work as well.
__________________

__________________
Fine Tolerance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 17:27   #18
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Tolerance View Post
Our tank is in the keel. The filling point for the tank is inside under the salon sole. When crossing the equator in the Pacific we have often bought a 44 (200lt) drum and placed it in the cockpit, then used a siphon to fill the tank in the keel. The indigenous inhabitants of where ever we have ended up have always be grateful for the empty drum. In areas where there is an increased risk of bad weather interspersed with calms (Aleutians, etc) where there is very limited fuel stations we have used plastic 20lt jerry cans (we carry 18) which are stowed below decks, mainly in the aft lazarette although occasional some on the forward cabin sole if we thought we would be using them very soon. We pour the jerry can contents directly into the tank. We have been doing this for over 25 years and way over 100,000nm with the filling operation being carried out mostly at sea and we have never spilt more than a dribble of fuel which has been immediately wiped up and never have we had any untoward smell of diesel in the cabin.

So a few further thoughts.
1) The above is personal experience. We have never had water in our fuel and after a complete refit, (I mean complete refit, right back to a bare hull with ballast) we have installed the same fill arrangement below the salon sole because it has worked so well all these years.
2) It is true that you see vessels with a large number of jerry cans on deck (I counted 45 on one once. That's 900kgs stuck on deck) but definitely the majority of longer distance cruisers carry them below deck. It's just that you don't see them down there and have no idea that they carry any.
3) Having jerry cans loose on the sole somewhere is not seamanlike, just laziness. They should be secured. Once off Greenland, when we were knocked upside down, we had three on the forward cabin sole and although they didn't leak a drop one did leave a hole in the deck head lining where the sharp edge of the screw top lid hit.
4) A place to store them when fill is a matter for each individual vessel and would be better worked out by trial. For us our 14m yacht sails better, albeit slower, with then stored right aft. Your vessel may react differently.
5) We only carry them all fill when we feel we need to, so seldom do they sit with fuel in them for any great length of time. We do add an appropriate amount of additive to each can when filling. An antifungal in the tropics or an anticoagulant in the high latitudes just to be on the safe side.

Hope this is of some help to you.

One further thing. I have had yachts with deck fills. They work as well.
I am so jealous of anyone who can have a 45 gallon drum in their cockpit.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 17:35   #19
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

[QUOTE=Fine Tolerance;1846884]Our tank is in the keel. The filling point for the tank is inside under the salon sole. When crossing the equator in the Pacific we have often bought a 44 (200lt) drum and placed it in the cockpit, then used a siphon to fill the tank in the keel. The indigenous inhabitants of where ever we have ended up have always be grateful for the empty drum. In areas where there is an increased risk of bad weather interspersed with calms (Aleutians, etc) where there is very limited fuel stations we have used plastic 20lt jerry cans (we carry 18) which are stowed below decks, mainly in the aft lazarette although occasional some on the forward cabin sole if we thought we would be using them very soon. We pour the jerry can contents directly into the tank. We have been doing this for over 25 years and way over 100,000nm with the filling operation being carried out mostly at sea and we have never spilt more than a dribble of fuel which has been immediately wiped up and never have we had any untoward smell of diesel in the cabin.

QUOTE]

That's 150kg of fuel alone. On the back of your boat. How big is your anchor
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 18:22   #20
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Australia
Boat: Norfolk 43
Posts: 17
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

In reply to the couple of previous posts.

!8 jerry cans of fuel is 360kgs, then add a couple of drums of water it's a total of 40lts. All in the boat, not on the boat. Just to be clear. As I mentioned it depends on the boat where to store but most boats will do well with more weight added aft, not forward. We carry a 50kg (110lb) Bruce with 1/2" chain when in high latitudes and a 30kg (66lb Bruce with 3/8" chain in the tropics.

Our yacht is centre cockpit and it is just fortunate that a 45 gal drum fits sweetly behind the wheel. It makes a for a nice high cockpit seat.

My post was to answer the original posters question from personal experience. Plastic jerry cans are tough, don't rust and carry normal certification which all cans should have. Eight of ours are 25 years old. They are not stored on deck, have not caused any pollution re spillage and show no signs of wear.
__________________
Fine Tolerance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 19:24   #21
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hailing Minny, MN
Boat: Vancouver 27
Posts: 751
Images: 1
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
OOps!, I forgot the secret: Mix a pigment into the last coat(s) of epoxy for color. I used graphite powder for the black, because I had a lot of it. In later tanks I used white titanium pigment to make it lighter, just so it would be easier to see how dirty the tank interior was. There is no problem with UV degradation of the epoxy when out of the sunlight, so no need to paint it.
Roy, did you do anything else special to the last coat or two of interior epoxy to curtail leeching or the like? Or not a concern in your opinion?

I know west system isn't totally on board with their epoxy being used for diesel tanks, but suggest using a slightly resin rich mix to guarantee a full cure.

Thanks for all the details.
__________________
laika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 19:51   #22
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Francisco and Australia
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 1,978
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
Add a deck fill pipe. Pouring diesel into an inspection hatch below decks is a bad idea. Once spilled diesel doesn't go away easily.


S/V B'Shert
+1

Ideally add a dedicated and securely fastened diesel tank and deck filler.

Moeller and vetus make good plastic diesel tanks in a range of sizes.

I personally dont allow fuel below decks unless in our 2 diesel tanks or day tank. We have a 165 gallon capacity.

All our hazmat lives in one of our deck boxes on the aft deck.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 20:47   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
Roy M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,041
Images: 4
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

laika, that's a good question. When I was building my boat (1974-1978), Gougeon Brothers, the makers of West System epoxies, published a guide on the use of their epoxy resins, with an emphasis on its suitability for diesel fuel. So, I built my tank as suggested by the research at the time. Twenty-something years later, I decided to add an integral fuel gauge, because I was lazy and didn't want to have to keep checking the dip stick. I drilled a hole in the tank with a hole saw, for the module. The plug that was extracted smelled like fresh Douglas fir, and there was no discoloration of the plys. From that I assumed that there had been no leaching or exchange through the epoxy barrier. The coating was a single layer of 6 ounce glass cloth, and the epoxy resin had just enough graphite powder to make it a jet black color.

At the same time that I was building, I had some pretty extensive gold cap dental work done (gold was still $35 an ounce, and the Ironworker's Union offered 100% dental coverage for its workers). I remarked to the dentist that the epoxy resin he was using to adhere the gold to my teeth was Shell EPON, the same stuff I had started to use on my boat in the initial stages. Forty years later the dental work is as good as new, and by association, the epoxy in my fuel tanks is similarly stable. Perhaps we can address this again in another forty or fifty years.

Out of pure curiosity, I checked the following site: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ch...oxy-d_786.html. It suggests an excellent rating for resistance of epoxies to diesel fuel.
__________________
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2015, 21:08   #24
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy M View Post
laika, that's a good question. When I was building my boat (1974-1978), Gougeon Brothers, the makers of West System epoxies, published a guide on the use of their epoxy resins, with an emphasis on it's suitability for diesel fuel. So, I built my tank as suggested by the research at the time. Twenty-something years later, I decided to add an integral fuel gauge, because I was lazy and didn't want to have to keep checking the dip stick. I drilled a hole in the tank with a hole saw, for the module. The plug that was extracted smelled like fresh Douglas fir, and there was no discoloration of the plys. From that I assumed that there had been no leaching or exchange through the epoxy barrier. The coating was a single layer of 6 ounce glass cloth, and the epoxy resin had just enough graphite powder to make it a jet black color.

At the same time that I was building, I had some pretty extensive gold cap dental work done (gold was still $35 an ounce, and the Ironworker's Union offered 100% dental coverage for its workers). I remarked to the dentist that the epoxy resin he was using to adhere the gold to my teeth was Shell EPON, the same stuff I had started to use on my boat in the initial stages. Forty years later the dental work is as good as new, and by association, the epoxy in my fuel tanks is similarly stable. Perhaps we can address this again in another forty or fifty years.

Out of pure curiosity, I checked the following site: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ch...oxy-d_786.html. It suggests an excellent rating for resistance of epoxies to diesel fuel.
That is a really interesting post on several levels. Very cool.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 13:09   #25
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hailing Minny, MN
Boat: Vancouver 27
Posts: 751
Images: 1
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

Good to hear, standing by to see how things shape up a few decades down the line. BTW, I've got a chipped tooth that I keep having to get re-set every couple years. They must not be using the good stuff..

Thanks again!
__________________
laika is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 16:34   #26
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Stowage of Diesel Fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fine Tolerance View Post
In reply to the couple of previous posts.

!8 jerry cans of fuel is 360kgs, then add a couple of drums of water it's a total of 40lts. All in the boat, not on the boat. Just to be clear. As I mentioned it depends on the boat where to store but most boats will do well with more weight added aft, not forward. We carry a 50kg (110lb) Bruce with 1/2" chain when in high latitudes and a 30kg (66lb Bruce with 3/8" chain in the tropics.

Our yacht is centre cockpit and it is just fortunate that a 45 gal drum fits sweetly behind the wheel. It makes a for a nice high cockpit seat.

My post was to answer the original posters question from personal experience. Plastic jerry cans are tough, don't rust and carry normal certification which all cans should have. Eight of ours are 25 years old. They are not stored on deck, have not caused any pollution re spillage and show no signs of wear.
Dude, if you have 360 kg of fuel, in what 18 jerry cans that's about almost 300 ltrs of fuel, not 40ltrs . If you have a fire in your boat and it reaches any one of those jerry cans and melts one, your in deep *****.
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel, fuel

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diesel Fuel Tank vs Portable Diesel Fuel Cell GaryMayo Engines and Propulsion Systems 11 13-11-2012 16:47
Jib Downhaul & Stowage ? hellosailor Seamanship & Boat Handling 33 20-10-2012 13:51
Galley stowage ideas James S Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 26-03-2009 10:31
Washboard/Companionway door stowage James S Construction, Maintenance & Refit 8 24-02-2009 00:51



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.