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Old 26-10-2014, 12:25   #16
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
I like the Morgan but was a bit worried about the short shoal draft keel at 4' as compared to the other two boats with 5' keels (but they are lighter in weight and more narrow)

1983 Morgan 323 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1982 Morgan 32 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1983 Niagara 31 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1980 CAL 31 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Is this a question of safety or a question of comfort or some of both?
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Old 26-10-2014, 12:50   #17
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

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One writer said "These boats (Bristol 27) were narrow with long overhangs, graceful low-slung sheerlines, and sweeping full keels that are cutaway in the forefoot. The narrow beam adds to seaworthiness but doesn’t do much for form stability, so they are quite tender initially. That’s not all bad as they were designed to lengthen their waterline when heeled."
The Bristol 27 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org
I think my Bristol 27 is very seaworthy but when the wind is say 18-22 knots or so and you are going to windward she is way over. And yes, I can point up a bit but then you aren't hardly moving.

Now I only have one set of reef points on my new main so I will reef that and furl in the jib to around 100% (so it extends back to the mast).

I was just thinking a little more length (LWL), weight, beam, and draft would make things a bit nicer especially going into the waves.

So when I found those two Morgans they had everything I want except for the draft, but then they were beamer so I was wondering how they would compare to the other two boats (Cal 31/Niagara 31) as for as stability. And how well would it compare to how it drove through the waves going to windward.

The old full keel boats seem to want to roll first then start pushing through when going to windward since they are so narrow. The Bristol 27 has an 8' beam.
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Old 26-10-2014, 13:05   #18
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

"I tend to end up sailing in quite a bit of breeze and my Bristol 27 can handle it but we ride the rails so to speak. She is way over and you have to be somewhat of a gymnast to go below for important supplies like a beer now and then."


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How much effort retrofitting water ballast into your Bristol?

This may sound an outrageous suggestion, but before you start spending money on a new boat, or installing water ballast tanks, we've had a similar problem on occasion with both of our boats and cured or at least improved matters: -

When the beer cans started to fall over, we made the sail area a bit smaller (we call it 'reefing' in the UK) whereupon everything will get much more horizontal again.
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Old 26-10-2014, 15:04   #19
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

[QUOTE=bobnlesley;1663486This may sound an outrageous suggestion, but before you start spending money on a new boat, or installing water ballast tanks, we've had a similar problem on occasion with both of our boats and cured or at least improved matters: -

When the beer cans started to fall over, we made the sail area a bit smaller (we call it 'reefing' in the UK) whereupon everything will get much more horizontal again. [/QUOTE]

Thanks but I tried the reefing thing (my new main only has one set of reef points) but she's still over quite a bit and the waves aren't even that big



but maybe I'm just spoiled from sailing these boats for 15 years. looks like the wind is similar here but the boat is much more level (upwind) with better performance. Maybe I need to add trapeze lines to my Bristol!

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Old 26-10-2014, 17:37   #20
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

1) on which side is your your fridge?

2) last time in the boatyard, did you look under the boat?

3) reef - she will be faster and sail flatter and sail a better angle and VMG,

You want flat sails to sail her flat. If your sails are baggy, she will heel excessively.

Very interesting thread. Thank for sharing your challenge and findings!

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Old 26-10-2014, 18:08   #21
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

Ice box is on the starboard side, and there is room below the port settee to add weight. I'm pulling the boat on Friday for the first time since I bought it in 2011.

Attached is the underside. The boat was on the hard for 5 years so I was under the boat doing sanding and painting etc.

This video is actually in winds 24-30 mph:

Bristol 27 Sailing down Chesapeake in 22-28 knots.
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Old 26-10-2014, 20:03   #22
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

Water ballast is unlikely to make much difference on a narrow boat like the Bristol, like the keel, you need a lever arm for the water ballast to work effectively.

Steve.
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Old 27-10-2014, 07:17   #23
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

Yeah, looks like I'll just have to add another set of reef points to the main and just deal with the rest.

Maybe I can just put a small cooler etc in the cockpit for much needed supplies then where my harness and tether for really windy days . . . . .
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Old 27-10-2014, 07:19   #24
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

She does seem to have some ballast attached! Hmmmm, it does not show in the video.

Frankly now.

I know other very similar designs (e.g. Twister). That's the way they sail.

REEF

GET GOOD SAILS

And that's as much as you can do.

Our boat is very similar but her Scandinavian designer decided to sort out a handful of challenges his own way. We heel less and we have dry side decks in all but a bad wipe-out.

Set your handheld to VMG, set a waypoint to windward and see how much you gain when you sail her (apparently slower) more vertical. You want a smaller flatter skinnier jib and a flattened out main reefed to something like .66 of the full main.

You can improve but you can not cure this completely. She will heel more than most modern designs will.

Cheers,
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Old 27-10-2014, 07:52   #25
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

Thanks. I'll play around with it some.

The sails are practically new, but the boat doesn't have a proper traveller. See picture. The goose neck isn't fixed though so I can downhaul it hard and I can also jury rig the boom down and more to center I guess.

I have a 100% jib also that I could use but I've been lazy and just use the 130.

The boat is fine I'd just like to have a newer, faster one but keep holding back because of slip fees on two boats etc. And I'd hate to sell this one.

Maybe I'll actually do some work on it this winter rather than just sail it.
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Old 27-10-2014, 07:59   #26
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

I have a similar narrow beam of 8ft. I have three reefs in the main and hanked on jibs, so can vary sail area a lot. It really helps because my wife hates to spill her wine:-)
Kidding a side, i have a light drifter, genoa, #1, #2, and a storm jib plus an asymmetric and regular spinaker. So l use what wind dictates and try to keep the boat flat and wife happy.
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Old 27-10-2014, 08:01   #27
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

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Why worry about it, mono hulls heel, deal with it.
Agreed. If this is really a problem, maybe you need a catamaran.
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Old 27-10-2014, 08:07   #28
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

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Agreed. If this is really a problem, maybe you need a catamaran.
All four of my previous sailboats were catamarans (Hobies/Nacras 16' - 20' etc) so you could be right, but I cannot afford the cruising catamaran that I like unless I liveaboard and I'm not quite ready for that. So, I'll have to adjust I guess.
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Old 27-10-2014, 09:58   #29
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

You just have too much sail up in the video. If the main is new, spend the money to get a couple more rows of reef points. The first reef on my boat doesn't do squat, so I go right to a double reef right off the bat. You'll probably spend more time with a double reef in than a single or triple, so if money's tight, just get a nice, deep double.

If it's breezy in the fall where your at, use your 100%, and save the 130 for the lighter summer stuff. A deep double in the main and a 100% jib will help get you on your feet.
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Old 27-10-2014, 10:09   #30
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Re: Stiffest Boat?

I think you'll find the most beam has the best INITIAL stiffness. So on a normal sail in less than hazardous conditions, it will feel stiffer and heel less.
Folk boats and some older narrow boats like that have a whopping 50% ballast ratio... but they heel immediately and are wet and rail down a lot...... however, once the rail is down, they stay there well and "get in the groove".
If you want to sail flat go with Beam.
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