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Old 30-07-2016, 19:19   #46
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Nothing stronger than steel. But if buying used, I'd want a very well kept one. Bottom line is you just aren't going to break a fiberglass boat that was well constructed with a long keel, protected rudder and enclosed ballast.
Steel easy to repair? For a welder maybe, not for the layman.

I mostly agree with this view except that GRP can have faults which are more difficult to find and more difficult to repair well - to each his own poison I guess. Handled well, steel can be immaculate.

Just FYI, I have found a pic of the pitting corrosion and a view of the re-plating required. Not sure that a glass boat would be repairable at all with this sort of damage.

Interestingly, a previous poster noted pin holes near the waterline but in my case the pitting was deeper in the water. Different cause maybe? Or different electrical flow through the water?


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Old 31-07-2016, 02:07   #47
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

Once again, thank you guys, your answers have been very helpful!

To summarize, as I interpret all this:

If you don't choose a steel boat that is VERY well kept, and probably a rather new one, there is a significant risk you are heading for major trouble if you choose steel. Especially it you are not Mr Handy (as I am not).

GRP boats have two major drawbacks, when compared to steel ones: If you run into a container you'd wish you had chosen a steel boat. And the same if you are rammed by another vessel in a harbor (or if you are hit by a dragging boat in an anchorage). As long as that does not happen, GRP is the easiest choice with fewer problems and less work.
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Old 31-07-2016, 03:18   #48
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

Oh, I am sure the choices are more complicated than that.😆😆

Reading and experience over the years would keep me very suspicious of GRP - water logged decks, hull/deck leaks, chain plates, boat pox, delamination, keel damage, rudders falling off, bulkheads separating from hull, interior hull liners disengaging, keels falling off.....

I reckon we could talk for months👍😃😈


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Old 31-07-2016, 04:15   #49
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

Aluminium is difficult to weld because it is not pure aluminum. It is usually mixed with a different alloy. Maybe a few different alloys. I think there are dozens of welding rods to pick from for Aluminium.

A thought that always pops into my head about the US Navy. They have a crew of 100's and often times 1000's to keep the ship afloat. If only I had those resources.




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Old 31-07-2016, 04:26   #50
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

if buying used, all metalboats share a huge disadvantage: extremely limited choice!!!
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Old 31-07-2016, 04:40   #51
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

A Practical Boat Owner review of all the available data regarding keel loss and sinking concluded that metal boats constituted the highest number mishaps. Where I live and sail there is one steel fishing boat as compared to literally hundreds of glass ones. You may ask why this is relavent. Well we are in the area considered the seal hunting capital of the world and where heavy pack ice is the norm and my point is if glass works for the pros pushing through heavy ice it'll work for you avoiding objects.
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Old 31-07-2016, 12:34   #52
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

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Originally Posted by stillbuilding View Post
Oh, I am sure the choices are more complicated than that.����

Reading and experience over the years would keep me very suspicious of GRP - water logged decks, hull/deck leaks, chain plates, boat pox, delamination, keel damage, rudders falling off, bulkheads separating from hull, interior hull liners disengaging, keels falling off.....

I reckon we could talk for months������


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All relevant and often overlooked.

Speaking from a 29 years background in steel boat maintenance I would say that even with the problems experienced because of bad design by the builder and those resulting from my neglect I have never had a problem with the steel boat that anywhere approaches the costs and stresses of remedying some of the bad cases of osmosis in fibre glass boats I have observed over the years.
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Old 01-08-2016, 17:42   #53
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

One man’s custom design Steel cruising yacht.
Hi Folks, What makes a good cruising boat?
It is interesting to see the range of design considerations prioritised by various cruising sailors – brings to mind the expression ” One man’s meat may be another’s poison”.
Each of us has his or her own personal priorities in a cruising yacht, our priorities in order are:
(1) Hull Integrity and vessel safety,
(2) Personal Security for occupants and crew,
(3) Personal Comfort for occupants and crew, (Creature comforts).
(4) Performance and handling under power.
(5) Performance and handling under sail.
(6) Overall vessel usability.
1. We could not find a production yacht to suit our needs so we designed and built our own custom Steel cruising yacht: “MISTY of Gosford” .
2. We are now in our 70’s and this is the 8th year of happily cruising the Australian East Coast.
3. We have publicly and freely listed our detailed design notes and considerations along with many photos of this project, in the hope that it may be of some assistance to any like minded person contemplating a similar journey.
@…Misty of Gosford: MISTY DESIGN 1.
Geoff Childs,
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:41   #54
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

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Originally Posted by Scorpius99eh View Post
Scorpius (steel) was "flame-sprayed" (hot zinc galvanized) inside and out, then polyurethane sprayed (inside) when she was built. Result: no rust from the inside and no condensation. She's 34 years old and anytime I remove some foam to do something the steel behind is pristine.

And that advice that "fiberglas bounces" and steel "punctures easily" is simply bs. We have LOTS of rocks here in BC and a booming business fixing the fibreglas boats that hit them. Hull to keel joints get opened up, skegs get smashed, great chunks are torn out of bows below the waterline. I've hit a few rocks with Scorpius in my 30 years sailing her (I go some pretty challenging places - including places with no charts) and five minutes with a file taking out the burr and some paint solves the problem. Very little rust occurs six feet down underwater and given that the bottom of the keel is 3/4" steel plate (after all it IS ballast), I really don't need to worry about it down there.

The stories of steel boats surviving horrific accidents are legion and legendary. They are EXCEEDINGLY strong.

Bill Robinson, S/V Scorpius
Lund, BC
Might that be a product very similar to the more modern 'Polyurea' ?

Polyurea Coatings - Boat Design Forums

Polyurea Coatings...for boats?, Dragonshield ballastics - Technical Discussion | YachtForums: We Know Big Boats!
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:58   #55
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Why Steel for the Hull & Frameless Construction Method

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Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat

Why steel for the hull,...why not fiberglass like most other production boats these days? One of the key words here is 'production boat'. Sure making up the plugs, then the molds for a production run of boats makes sense. But what if you don't really know how many copies you may build,...what if its a limited run geared for a specific market?? Then you are trapped with an up-front, expensive bit of tooling that you can not amortize over a goodly number of vessels.

But if we still consider a fiberglass hull, we certainly know by now we don't really want, nor need, sandwich core construction in the hull structure below the water line,...for that matter we might well leave it out of the hull structure altogether. That leaves us with solid fiberglass construction utilizing some decent resins, some decent fiberglass, and some good gel coats. Great Harbor Trawlers brags that their hull bottoms are solidly built with “laminates of more than 1-inch thick”.

When I start thinking about the labor hours to lay-up the laminates of that thick solid glass bottom, and their cost of quality resins in today's new oil price market, I just have to come back to the reality that just as tough a hull can be fabricated from a single, much thinner thickness of sheet plate steel at a fraction of that cost. And the steel's ductility makes it all the more appealing.

Why steel? It's an inexpensive material, easily fabricated, and very durable. It's a material that inspires confidence in a boat's survivability from mishaps and collisions by both experienced boat owners and newly minted ones.


Can we build the steel hull shape we might want, and can we build it at a reasonable price? I certainly believe so. I believe we could build an almost identical hull to that existing one in steel. I also believe it could be made even easier by modifying the hull slightly to a single chine, or maybe even a double chine if so desired.

I would propose that this steel hull could be built in a 'frameless fashion'.
http://5psi.net/index.php?q=node/11


Attachment 22059

Attachment 22060


As noted the computer cut steel panels are welded-up together while supported by this external jig-frame. Then the internal framing members (stringers, frames, bulkheads) can be added as deemed necessary. I've attached another photo example of a bulkhead with stringers. I think the Pilgrim design could get along fine with 5 of these major bulkhead types tying the hull sides together, and supporting the thick sandwich-cored deck I wish to place on top of their upper edges.

Attachment 22061


Note that the welded-up hull, with the bulkheads all installed, could remain in the jig-frame fixture while the engine and other equips are being installed (no deck is installed yet). The deck piece, and then major cabin superstructure, could actually be assembled on another part of the shop floor and then brought over and placed onto the assembled hull.


There are several other advantages to this steel hull idea. You will note that I mention 'computer cut panels' of steel. This not only shortens the time of construction of the steel hull, it also makes it a potential kit-boat candidate.

It has yet another potential benefit. Unlike a fiberglass hull where I am married to a single bottom design, I can change this hull's bottom design readily if something new looks feasible.
...also Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat - Page 12 - Trawler Forum

CNC-cut Metal Kits, ProBoat




And a plastic honeycomb deck
Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:26   #56
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Krook View Post
Once again, thank you guys, your answers have been very helpful!

To summarize, as I interpret all this:

If you don't choose a steel boat that is VERY well kept, and probably a rather new one, there is a significant risk you are heading for major trouble if you choose steel. Especially it you are not Mr Handy (as I am not).

GRP boats have two major drawbacks, when compared to steel ones: If you run into a container you'd wish you had chosen a steel boat. And the same if you are rammed by another vessel in a harbor (or if you are hit by a dragging boat in an anchorage). As long as that does not happen, GRP is the easiest choice with fewer problems and less work.
We have 2 steel sailboats. I mostly single hand or may as well be single handing. A couple of times I have tested the durability of steel. Most recently I went brain I dead for a couple of minutes and struck a large steel buoy at 7.5 knots (lots of current) with our 33' boat. Not proud of that.

None the less all I have is dent. No water intrusion. I saw a 45'ish production glass boat that did the same thing, a big gash through the hull, luckily above the water line and a calm day or else he would have been in trouble.

So, in my mind, that's the reason for steel, because when you travel, especially in more remote regions, the strength give you the opportunity to survive and bounce back from a mistake. Boats made of steel because we are not.

Now it's very important to buy the right steel boat. I have my opinions on that also. It's doable, but you need to be smart and do your homework. It's not easy as a novice.
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:29   #57
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Steel boat – heaven or hell?

Sounds like Scorpios was built around the 80's - my generation.

Not to be provocative but I shared the notion that a zinc primer/ flame spraying was the best way to prime steel, but the shipyard where I had my work done were adamant that this approach frequently failed - unless it was top-coated with coal tar epoxy.

I also concur in not expecting rust to be a broken at 6' depth. However, have a quick look at the pics of my hull replating and have a stab at how much underwater my issues were found (clue: draft is 7'9")
😆😆😂😈

And I agree with you that steel is the best choice.😆😆😆


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Old 11-08-2016, 08:10   #58
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

I just noticed a 44 foot DAMION 2 on the Seattle Craigslist. I think it sold a few years ago after numerous price changes that went from $70K down to $13K and then back up. If it is the same boat (I think it is) it now has a new engine. They are a very well respected designed round bilge boat. It looks like it needs work, but all boats do. Do some research, it might be interesting. I doubt that there is more than 1 Damion 2 in the area. Just a heads up. Grant.
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Old 11-08-2016, 08:48   #59
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

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I just noticed a 44 foot DAMION 2 on the Seattle Craigslist. I think it sold a few years ago after numerous price changes that went from $70K down to $13K and then back up. If it is the same boat (I think it is) it now has a new engine. They are a very well respected designed round bilge boat. It looks like it needs work, but all boats do. Do some research, it might be interesting. I doubt that there is more than 1 Damion 2 in the area. Just a heads up. Grant.
Do you have a weblink page? Craigslist can be confusing at times depending on one's location.
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Old 11-08-2016, 15:46   #60
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Re: Steel boat – heaven or hell?

My steel boat is in for a sandblast and paint of the upper works. We've never had good adhesion, and that's a lesson in letting pros do (and guarantee) paint on steel. After that it's a small but recurring job to chase down breakthroughs and patch them. Note I'm talking about upper works. I have never had the tiniest bit of rust below the waterline, even when there was bare steel showing, for the simple reason that I keep the hull at above one volt with generous use of aluminum anodes. Fourteen of them, plus the prop shaft zinc. I don't think of my boat as being a yacht - she's a miniature ship. The finish is rough, but OMG is she tough - I'll win any fight with anything made of fiberglass, and with docks as well. In addition, being steel lets me modify at will - the way the dinghy is mounted just got changed from over the fantail to up on the top deck, and the anchors have moved from "nostrils" to more normal bow rollers - and I made the parts in both cases out of scrap steel.
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