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Old 08-01-2014, 23:27   #1
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staysail rigging

I am looking for suggestions in how to bring the lines back into my cockpit on a new genoa staysail. I have a Corbin39 , flush deck, the foot of the staysail will come back about a foot past my mast with the clew being 4 to 5 feet of the deck. Is it possible to share my track for my 135% genoa ? I have tried to make everything on this boat as simple as possible yet effective. I have some pictures in my profile of the deck of the boat that might be of assistance to give a visual. Thanks ahead of time.
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Old 08-01-2014, 23:33   #2
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Re: staysail rigging

This may be a dumb question, but why such a large staysail?

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Old 08-01-2014, 23:39   #3
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I wanted to come back that far for two reasons. In orders to make the sail effective i needed it to be at least 175 sq feet which is close to 20% of my total sail
Area and secondly as I want to use it most for when I am beating close to the wind, which a genoa staysail is most effective at.
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Old 08-01-2014, 23:39   #4
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Re: staysail rigging

regardless of sail sizes, it will have to do with whether you can move the existing genoa car far enough forward to get the sheet leading at the right angle.
I'm assuming your not planning on flying both sails at the same time and that this "staysail" is on an inner forestay.
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Old 08-01-2014, 23:41   #5
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Yes it is on its own removable stay and yes I feel it's possible to get the proper angle needed
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Old 09-01-2014, 00:02   #6
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Re: staysail rigging

Well no problem then...I have a similar arrangement, but I had to add a snatchblock forward of the track to get the right sheeting angle.
I have no problems with the lazy genoa sheet and the taught staysail sheet in the same car.....the car has to be big enough to easily accommodate both sheets of course.
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Old 09-01-2014, 00:59   #7
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Re: staysail rigging

We installed a two foot section of track on each side of the cabin top so we can get much tighter sheeting angles than when using the genoa track. We then put a sheet stopper on each side of the companionway for the staysail sheets. The main halyard and main sheet winches are then used to control the staysail sheets.

The short staysail tracks are about 34 inches inboard of the genoa track.

We have a big (170 sq foot) staysail that overlaps the main by several feet. It is the perfect sail when hard on the wind in 22 - 30 knots apparent. It reduces heel and rudder angle greatly when compared to the 120% RF genoa rolled to 90%. It also gives us about three to five degrees less leeeway than the RF genoa.

Above 30 knots we use a 120 square foot non-overlapping staysail that can either sheet to an athwartship track for self tacking or to the inner staysail tracks if we are not going to tack much.

Above 42 or so knots we go to our 80 square foot storm jib on the inner forestay.

Installing the tracks was not too hard:

- remove the main cabin head liner
- locate the track on the cabin top where desired
- mark and drill the holes
- fabricate backing plates from 1/2" aluminum
- bolt the tracks down
- reinstall the headliner (tedious and hard to get perfect unless you are a cabinet maker like my brother)
- repeat the process in the galley and quarterberth for the sheet stoppers
- drill holes thru fiberglass bridge for main sheet track / traveller
- install guide tube in bridge
- install bullseyes to guide sheet to sheetstopper

The whole process took less than a day
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Old 09-01-2014, 06:11   #8
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Re: staysail rigging

Quote:
Originally Posted by cortezsailor View Post
I wanted to come back that far for two reasons. In orders to make the sail effective i needed it to be at least 175 sq feet which is close to 20% of my total sail
Area and secondly as I want to use it most for when I am beating close to the wind, which a genoa staysail is most effective at.
A genoa staysail is a fairly rare beast, although on IOR-style rigs with generous J measurements, it's a good choice for extended reaching.

They are frequently tacked to the rail. The only book I can recall in my collection that deals with how to get the best out of them is Sail Power by Wally Ross, which despite being outdated in some respects, has plenty of interesting ideas on boats from this era, many of which are still sailing.
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:04   #9
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Yes Tacoma , I will also be adding a track for a smaller staysail as well. You re arrangement sounds much like what I want to have in the end. After redoing the headliner in my entire boat on my own the thought of taking some of it down is a bummer but it has to be done
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:17   #10
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Re: staysail rigging

Found this:

Genoa staysail
The Genoa staysail is quite a different kettle of fish, the trimming of this sail is all about the slot, usually used under a high clewed jib top headsail, it can also be used on occasions under more conventional headsails and even sometimes under a Code 0 headsail or type A3/A0 assymetric spinnakers. Best in true wind between 90 and 130 degrees they can still be used on much wider angles in the higher wind ranges.
What we are trying to achieve is a venturii effect between the mainsail and headsail, acting as an accelerant, a well trimmed Genoa Staysail when used correctly can be very effective in this way.
Setting up
The Genoa staysail is very similar in profile to a conventional headsail, so we would set it up on the existing headsail tracks, remembering when reaching the jib top or outer headsail should be set as far outboard as possible and not be using these tracks.
Setting up the Genoa staysail should be similar to a standard jib, look at the telltales and how they break from top to bottom, we are looking for an even break with the higher one breaking a little early if possible.
I find the best way to view a Genoa Staysail is from well aft looking up at the two sails flying, using the twist angle to keep it in the middle of the slot between the main and headsail, when trimmed perfectly it should be a slightly shallower mirror image of the headsail leech profile. Note: every time the headsail is trimmed considerably, so should the staysail need attention to keep this slot bisection even.
When and How
The Genoa staysail begin to come into its own at about 8 knots true on most boats, and can be used a long way up the range, so it needs to be built a bit heavier than other staysails. In heavy conditions it will help balance the boat out by taking some load off the helm and make the boat more controllable in long reaching conditions.
As this staysail is used with the wind angle a lot further forward, it is important to keep the luff as taut as possible, we do not want the leading edge sagging into headsail area and closing up that all important slot. It is best flown with webbing luff loops laced onto a high torque rope, haul up the high torque rope on a Genoa halyard and tighten as hard as you can. Then hoist the staysail on a second halyard (or a high topping lift), the webbing loops run up the high torque rope ala conventional hanks.
Alternative
As mentioned earlier, the Genoa Staysail is a very similar to a conventional headsail in appearance and trim, if you do not have one in your wardrobe and do not see the need where you would use one on a regular basis; i.e. you mainly race short courses, it is possible when confronted with the occasional long reaching leg to use an existing smaller sail like a number 4 or a storm jib in this role. Just check with your sailmaker to make sure the luff finish is strong enough to fly unsupported.
So with a staysail make sure you have done all the experimenting and setting up prior to the day when you decide you might use it; the racecourse is not the time to be experimenting with sheeting positions and whether the use is feasible or not.

Use your staysails wisely and attentively, they can make a difference and give you a little turbo boost that may make a difference on the score sheet.

Article by Tony Bull with thanks to Brett Jones.

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Old 09-01-2014, 08:26   #11
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Re: staysail rigging

I have a staysail. Not exactly a genoa staysail but very similar. I just changed up the config on the track and sheeting. I installed a track and then multiple heavy padeyes so I can use these to set a block to gain the best angles.

Very cool. When set-up correctly the accelerated venturi through the slot really helps the boat scoot.

My set-up does necessitate going to the foredeck occasionally but once set fine tuning can be achieved from the cockpit via a rail mounted sheet through bullseyes and a cam stopper. I do not even need a winch as I have a 4:1 which can be converted to an 8:1.
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:58   #12
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Re: staysail rigging

We fly three sizes of staysails, and the big one is a 'genoa staysail' just like the op. we sheet it to the same track as the jib. See pic below (aft blocks for the jib, forward blocks for the staysail). We also have blocks out of the toe rail for sailing broader. Our optimum upwind angle is quite close (for a cruising boat), 27 - 32 degrees apparent (mostly depending on the waves), and this allows that sheeting perfectly.

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Old 09-01-2014, 09:02   #13
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Thanks Esterzinger , a picture is worth, well you know. I am guessing that when you're sailing tight to the wind you just have you re staysail out but on more of a reach you would run youre staysail to the outer track if you desired to use both?
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