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05-04-2013, 08:16
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#46
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: PNW
Boat: custom teak ketch 48' Eastwind
Posts: 607
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Re: Staysail definition?
I've often wondered if I lost my mizzen mast, would I be a cutter or a double head stay sloop? If my bow sprit fell off would I become a bald headed cutter??
I have a double ender so I can become a schooner when I sail backward!! I know one thing for sure - I'm not a yawl because the goddam mast is always in my way!!!
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05-04-2013, 13:38
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#47
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,134
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash
Really? I've always considered it fairly straightforward: if the mizzen mast is abaft the rudder post, it's a yawl.
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Yes, this is a traditional definition... but what would you call a vessel with the mizzen stepped just forward of the transom and the boom well outboard, and a transom hung rudder?
Cheers,
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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05-04-2013, 14:28
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#48
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,441
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash
Really? I've always considered it fairly straightforward: if the mizzen mast is abaft the rudder post, it's a yawl.
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Would you call this a ketch or yawl?
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
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05-04-2013, 14:55
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#49
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,757
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie
Would you call this a ketch or yawl?
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Yawl
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05-04-2013, 14:58
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#50
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,441
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
Yawl
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I would agree but under the rudder post definition it would be a ketch since the rudder is transom hung.
I always liked the definition based on relative size of the mizzen: a yawl has a mizzen about half the height of the main mast or less and a ketch has a mizzen 2/3 or 3/4 or greater. There are functional differences in how the mizzen is handled that are based for on the relative size of the mizzen that have nothing to do with the exact location of the mizzen. And, yes, there is a whole big gray area in the middle.
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
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05-04-2013, 15:05
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#51
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,757
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie
I would agree but under the rudder post definition it would be a ketch since the rudder is transom hung.
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Always exceptions. I always look if the mizzen is much smaller than the main and basically just used for trim. It is far aft in that case which confirms it: then it's a yawl for me
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05-04-2013, 15:09
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#52
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,441
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi
Always exceptions. I always look if the mizzen is much smaller than the main and basically just used for trim. It is far aft in that case which confirms it: then it's a yawl for me
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This is why I refer to both yawls and ketches as mizzen rigged and avoid the argument with all the tetchy folks.
You are NOT included on my list of tetchy folks since you seem to be able to see and accept the alternative definition.
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
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06-04-2013, 09:17
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#53
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: PNW
Boat: custom teak ketch 48' Eastwind
Posts: 607
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Re: Staysail definition?
If the top of my main mast fell off at the upper spreaders and my bow sprit also fell off, you could call me a bald headed, cutter rigged, ketch/yawl, schooner????
I suppose if the boat sunk, we could call it a SUBMARINE!!!!!
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08-04-2013, 17:36
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#54
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Punta Gorda Isles, SW Florida
Boat: Caliber 40
Posts: 1,160
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Re: Staysail definition?
I've often thought my bald head was going to lift off while trying to figure out if the boat I see is a ketch or yawl but then what happens when the rudder falls off?
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08-04-2013, 17:39
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#55
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie
I would agree but under the rudder post definition it would be a ketch since the rudder is transom hung.
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Nope. If the rudder is transom-hung, there is no rudder post.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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08-04-2013, 17:41
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#56
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoduck
If the top of my main mast fell off at the upper spreaders and my bow sprit also fell off, you could call me a bald headed, cutter rigged, ketch/yawl, schooner????
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Nope. We'd call you "Lucky."
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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08-04-2013, 18:00
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#57
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,884
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Re: Staysail definition?
. . . or "Careless."
__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
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08-04-2013, 18:08
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#58
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Far North Queensland Australia
Boat: John Pugh / Currawong 48/OAL
Posts: 205
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitpik
Wouldn't it be simpler if you all sailed proper yachts, with two masts?
On a schooner, the sail out front is a Yankee, followed by the Stays'l., then the Fores'l (ForeMainSail), and then the Mainsail.
Personally, I don't much care what ya' calls it, on your own boat, as long as everyone agrees, and there is no confusion amongst the crew that might lead to an unsafe situation.
I am curious 'though ..... is it only called a Yankee in the States? Wot would they call it in Oz?
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Yep We call it a Yankee and I quite often fly mine on my " stay sail ketch"
Cheers Jacko
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08-04-2013, 18:17
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#59
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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Re: Staysail definition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacko
Yep We call it a Yankee and I quite often fly mine on my " stay sail ketch"
Cheers Jacko
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My sloop has a yankee too. We fly it when we're not flying the lapper.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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08-04-2013, 21:42
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#60
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arctic Ocean
Boat: Under construction 35' ketch (and +3 smaller)
Posts: 2,731
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Re: Staysail definition?
Without topmast there's no 'yankee' IMO
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