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Old 05-04-2013, 09:16   #46
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Re: Staysail definition?

I've often wondered if I lost my mizzen mast, would I be a cutter or a double head stay sloop? If my bow sprit fell off would I become a bald headed cutter??
I have a double ender so I can become a schooner when I sail backward!! I know one thing for sure - I'm not a yawl because the goddam mast is always in my way!!!
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Old 05-04-2013, 14:38   #47
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Re: Staysail definition?

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post
Really? I've always considered it fairly straightforward: if the mizzen mast is abaft the rudder post, it's a yawl.
Yes, this is a traditional definition... but what would you call a vessel with the mizzen stepped just forward of the transom and the boom well outboard, and a transom hung rudder?

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Old 05-04-2013, 15:28   #48
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Re: Staysail definition?

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Really? I've always considered it fairly straightforward: if the mizzen mast is abaft the rudder post, it's a yawl.
Would you call this a ketch or yawl?
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Old 05-04-2013, 15:55   #49
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Re: Staysail definition?

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Would you call this a ketch or yawl?
Yawl
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Old 05-04-2013, 15:58   #50
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Re: Staysail definition?

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Yawl
I would agree but under the rudder post definition it would be a ketch since the rudder is transom hung.

I always liked the definition based on relative size of the mizzen: a yawl has a mizzen about half the height of the main mast or less and a ketch has a mizzen 2/3 or 3/4 or greater. There are functional differences in how the mizzen is handled that are based for on the relative size of the mizzen that have nothing to do with the exact location of the mizzen. And, yes, there is a whole big gray area in the middle.
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Old 05-04-2013, 16:05   #51
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Re: Staysail definition?

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I would agree but under the rudder post definition it would be a ketch since the rudder is transom hung.
Always exceptions. I always look if the mizzen is much smaller than the main and basically just used for trim. It is far aft in that case which confirms it: then it's a yawl for me
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Old 05-04-2013, 16:09   #52
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Re: Staysail definition?

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Always exceptions. I always look if the mizzen is much smaller than the main and basically just used for trim. It is far aft in that case which confirms it: then it's a yawl for me
This is why I refer to both yawls and ketches as mizzen rigged and avoid the argument with all the tetchy folks.

You are NOT included on my list of tetchy folks since you seem to be able to see and accept the alternative definition.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:17   #53
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Re: Staysail definition?

If the top of my main mast fell off at the upper spreaders and my bow sprit also fell off, you could call me a bald headed, cutter rigged, ketch/yawl, schooner????
I suppose if the boat sunk, we could call it a SUBMARINE!!!!!
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Old 08-04-2013, 18:36   #54
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Re: Staysail definition?

I've often thought my bald head was going to lift off while trying to figure out if the boat I see is a ketch or yawl but then what happens when the rudder falls off?
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Old 08-04-2013, 18:39   #55
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Re: Staysail definition?

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I would agree but under the rudder post definition it would be a ketch since the rudder is transom hung.
Nope. If the rudder is transom-hung, there is no rudder post.
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Old 08-04-2013, 18:41   #56
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Re: Staysail definition?

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If the top of my main mast fell off at the upper spreaders and my bow sprit also fell off, you could call me a bald headed, cutter rigged, ketch/yawl, schooner????
Nope. We'd call you "Lucky."
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Old 08-04-2013, 19:00   #57
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Re: Staysail definition?

. . . or "Careless."
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Old 08-04-2013, 19:08   #58
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Re: Staysail definition?

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Originally Posted by nitpik View Post
Wouldn't it be simpler if you all sailed proper yachts, with two masts?
On a schooner, the sail out front is a Yankee, followed by the Stays'l., then the Fores'l (ForeMainSail), and then the Mainsail.
Personally, I don't much care what ya' calls it, on your own boat, as long as everyone agrees, and there is no confusion amongst the crew that might lead to an unsafe situation.

I am curious 'though ..... is it only called a Yankee in the States? Wot would they call it in Oz?
Yep We call it a Yankee and I quite often fly mine on my " stay sail ketch"
Cheers Jacko
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Old 08-04-2013, 19:17   #59
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Re: Staysail definition?

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Yep We call it a Yankee and I quite often fly mine on my " stay sail ketch"
Cheers Jacko
My sloop has a yankee too. We fly it when we're not flying the lapper.
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Old 08-04-2013, 22:42   #60
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Re: Staysail definition?

Without topmast there's no 'yankee' IMO
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