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Old 25-10-2012, 23:11   #16
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Re: Staysail. Boom and pedestal or loose footed

My cutter has a true stay sail. I heave to with it when I need to slow down in heavy weather. Try doing that with your self tacker. It also has a super efficient shape for going upwind in a blow. Tried a boomed staysail years ago. Will not go back.
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Old 25-10-2012, 23:33   #17
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Re: Staysail. Boom and pedestal or loose footed

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Originally Posted by vtcapo View Post
My rigger and I are going back and forth concerning boom vs loose footed staysail. The points made here are well taken and my rigger is leaning toward a boomed configuration. However, he also mentioned that a single sheeted self tending staysail can be rigged but sail shape will be an issue.

You mentioned that you are using such a configuration. How do you maintain sufficient sale shape. Do you have a padded luff to help maintain better sail shape during reefing? My staysail rolls into a ProFurl NC-42. I assume your Moody is furling?

Stowage on the foredeck, dingy, etc is not a factor but I'd prefer no boom.

Any advice would be appreciate.

RT
My staysail is on a beefy furler (Furlex 400). I never reef it, so a hank-on staysail would work ok, but since it is my storm jib, I like the fact that can set and furl it from the cockpit.

Sail shape is ok on a reach, but too full from a close reach up, specifically, the foot is too loose. The sheet runs almost straight up from the track to the clew, so the only control I have practically is leech tension.

I don't like it, and would be interested to hear if anyone comes up with anything better. Some suggested to me a clew board with different attachment points; might try that.

What I will not try is conventional sheeting - would simp,y be too complicated. I would need two more winches in the cockpit, and there is no room for them (I already have 8 (!) cockpit winches), not to mention the expense.
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Old 25-10-2012, 23:37   #18
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Re: Staysail. Boom and pedestal or loose footed

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
My cutter has a true stay sail. I heave to with it when I need to slow down in heavy weather. Try doing that with your self tacker. It also has a super efficient shape for going upwind in a blow. Tried a boomed staysail years ago. Will not go back.
Self-tackers can be tied off for heaving-to. I heave to with my main headsail, but in really snotty weather I guess the staysail would be right.
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Old 26-10-2012, 00:28   #19
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Re: Staysail. Boom and pedestal or loose footed

A loose footed staysail can be cut oversize. Really increases the synergy between the jib, the staysail and main. Had my staysail cut with a slight overlap. Allowed me to stay with the working sails till winds got quite light. Tried a Genoa Staysail with a good overlap. Was a great sail in conjunction with the Yankee working from force two to five. Unfortunately, the sheet fouled the forward lower as the sail was eased. Required moving the sheet from inside to outside the wire so didn't take it with us to SoPac. The more area the better for the staysail and a boom automatically limits you to quite a bit less than 100%. Had our loose footed staysail set up with reef points. Was easy to reef in moderate conditions fwhen we reefed it for practice.. Fortunately never had to do it in anger.

Having the staysail set on a short boom so you can get round it on the foredeck wastes sail area for the little advantage of self tending. Short tacking with the loose footed staysail was easy. The staysail is small enough that you can sheet it in while the boat is in irons with a tug on the sheet and then take care of the jib as it comes through. Actually easier to tack than with a 135% genoa on my current sloop.

If you try and heave to with the typical staysail boomed boat you will have to go forward. Unless you haul the boom to windward, the boom will tack through as you come about. A loose footed sail can be hauled to windward from the cockpit or just not uncleated as you come about. anyway I can keep from going forward when the wind is up is a major plus.

The loose footed staysail will require a short track and winch on each side of the cabin top. If you set it up right, you can also lead the mainsail reefing lines back to the cockpit and use the staysail winches for reefing as well as the staysail. Love those rope clutches. I've set up a double line reefiing system run to the cockpit. Really nice to reef while protected by the dodger. Can reef the main in a minute without having to go forward and ride a bucking main boom. It's so easy I'll do it just for the fun of it.

I don't think I'd go with roller furling on the staysail. For storm conditions, would hoist a storm jib on the stay. A reefed or furled staysail can do double duty as a storm jib but you risk blowing it out or up. The staysail is small enough that it's relatively easy to hand even when it's blowing stink. If I did go with roller furling, would have a foam luff. Makes for a way better setting sail when its rolled in to reef.

Unless you have a Hoyt boom, the staysail boom will kite as soon as you ease the sheet. Wonder what those who claim it doesn't are looking at. As the boom rises, the curvature in the leach increases making for a poorly setting sail. The sail will create more healing moment and less drive as the leech curls. You can vang the boom down or the clue with a traveler but that means you have to go forward. Worse, every time you adjust the sail, you've got to adjust the vang if you want an optimally setting sail.

Have sailed more than 10,000 miles with a loose footed staysail with never a problem. No way would I go back to a boomed staysail.
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Old 26-10-2012, 01:38   #20
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Re: Staysail. Boom and pedestal or loose footed

I can see the reasons to debate the club foot or jib boom present or not, but maybe it's wise to refer back to Saltyhog's post#10. They are mostly all with a loose foot,- boom or not. Actually, I've never seen a staysail on a boom without a loose foot although there probably are some.
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Old 26-10-2012, 02:01   #21
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Re: Staysail. Boom and pedestal or loose footed

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
I don't think I'd go with roller furling on the staysail. For storm conditions, would hoist a storm jib on the stay. A reefed or furled staysail can do double duty as a storm jib but you risk blowing it out or up. The staysail is small enough that it's relatively easy to hand even when it's blowing stink. If I did go with roller furling, would have a foam luff. Makes for a way better setting sail when its rolled in to reef.
It's worth saying, probably, that if you want to use your staysail as a storm jib, you need to be sure that it is designed for this duty. It will need to have an extra-heavy duty furler, and the sail itself needs to be of extra heavy cloth (same as a storm jib would have). My boat came from the yard with a dyneema staysail sheet, too -- for the same reason.
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Old 26-10-2012, 08:25   #22
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Re: Staysail. Boom and pedestal or loose footed

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Self-tackers can be tied off for heaving-to. I heave to with my main headsail, but in really snotty weather I guess the staysail would be right.
I am not sure how you would tie off the staysail without a lot of hassle forward of the mast in really crappy weather. When I am sailing along with a short main and staysail the last thing I want to do is exercise on the front deck. But that may be just me.
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Old 28-10-2012, 09:08   #23
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Re: Staysail. Boom and pedestal or loose footed

Still up in the air on whether or not to change my current rig. Right now on my 37' Slocum I have a Pro-Furl NC-42 for my 150 genoa, and another NC-42 for an over lapping staysail. Everything is lead to winches in the cockpit. In light airs I use the 150 and main. That throws up 900+ sq. feet of sail and she moves right along. No need for the staysail. If I had a 135% genny I would use the staysail.

Looking from a single handling point of view would any of you change this rig to a boomed staysail. I have a Furlex main extension that allows me to reef the main down to a handkerchief. With a self tacking boomed staysail (boom being attached to the stay, sail NOT loose footed but on a track for reefing) and main I am thinking this would be ideal for heavy weather particularly if I am short handed.

Any thoughts....

RT
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