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Old 02-12-2010, 15:50   #16
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
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Just so complicated! I like the orginal poster's idea just fine and that is the same basic plan I plan on using.
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Old 02-12-2010, 16:07   #17
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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Just so complicated! I like the orginal poster's idea just fine and that is the same basic plan I plan on using.
Like many things, it can take a lot of work to make something look simple. Once the engineering is done and the hardware put in place, it's very simple to use.

The downside to hoisting a storm jib with a built-in headstay directly on a halyard that lifts both the stay and the sail at the same time: getting sufficient tension on the stay to be able to point, and not shaking the rig to pieces as the storm jib flogs during the hoist.

From my perspective, the more interesting problem is this: what do you do if it gets so windy that you want to take the storm jib down? The sailmaker I posed that question to (the same one that wanted to sell me storm jib with a built-in stay) didn't have a good answer other than to wrestle the sail down and hope that it didn't go overboard during the douse. That's when I started looking for a different solution, and eventually found it.

The basic solution is even easier: attach a 1x19 cutter/storm jib stay to the mast, tie it off when not in use, rig it up when needed. The entire purpose of this exercise is to avoid having that wire stay dangling around in the air the whole time.

- rob/beetle
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Old 02-12-2010, 16:12   #18
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Really thoughtful feedback, people. I can handle the details in Beetle's description, and having the jib pre-hanked is appealing on the foredeck of a 27 footer. There's more rigging aloft than with a baby stay, but hoisting the sail sounds easier when it's rough.

It's also an interesting point about putting more compression load on the mast as the tack moves aft; wonder if it's significant.

The idea of unfurling and dropping and stowing the regular jib/jenny (instead of tying the furl with sail stops) makes some sense in theory, but I can hardly imagine doing it as the wind and bumps are rising.

Mostly, I hope I can keep her in stimulating conditions, before they get thrilling, on their way to p-poor.

thanks again
mark
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Old 02-12-2010, 16:27   #19
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Originally Posted by Surrymark View Post
Rather than put in a baby stay for a hank-on storm jib (on a Cape Dory 27), I've been thinking of using a non-stretch bolt rope (probably Vectran) on the luff that I can just attach to a pad eye on the bottom, and a non-stretch halyard at the top.

It seemed like a simple idea. I use the jib winch to get the luff as tight as I can. The sail is small, so it may stay taut enough for the purpose. Then I read the following from Michael on this forum:

". . .for hoisting from the pointy end when the wind picks up the sail should be attached to something or something ugly could happen."

It made me picture the storm jib doing some frightful whipping around until (hopefully) I got it hoisted.

Has anybody ever seen a no-stay rig like this? Has anybody used a variety of storm jib set-ups in bad weather?
I have a high cut Yankee I believe it is called, with a wire luff and pendant on the tack. It tacks to a pad eye on the fore deck and is hoisted on the spinnaker halyard. I flew it once in light air just to try it out but I can't say what it would do when the wind pipes up. It was dead simple to set and you could make it self tacking by setting the sheets at the right length. My boat is 26'
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Old 02-12-2010, 16:33   #20
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Compression loading is only an issue on 'noodle' masts....rare on CF.
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Old 02-12-2010, 19:00   #21
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Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
I just finished a project very closely related. I spliced eyes in the ends of a length of Amsteel (very little stretch) attached a tack hook to one end and wa-lah a second for-stay. I installed a really beefy pad eye in the foredeck just behind the windless with a backing plate the size of a small dinner plate. Using the spin halyard to hoist this second forestay I can then raise the storm-jib/ stay-sail without it being set flying. The storm jib has a wire luff anyway so it can be raised very tight. Also it is masthead so I don't need running back stays. I flew it last Tuesday as a stay-sail for the first time and it worked great.
I agree that setting a storm sail flying is probably not a safe idea. Whipping around and all.
We also experimented with using the topping lift as a barber hauler for the second head-stay and halyard in order to adjust the angle in relation to the original head-stay. Still in experimental stages!
Good luck
One thought I had was--- No mater how big a backing plate you used, if the pad eye or backing plate is not attached to the hull some way you could still pull your deck up. Just a thought?
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Old 02-12-2010, 21:31   #22
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One thought I had was--- No mater how big a backing plate you used, if the pad eye or backing plate is not attached to the hull some way you could still pull your deck up. Just a thought?
Well, pulling a backing plate through a strong deck is a helluva strain, but in conditions where the storm jib is really needed, it will indeed put a lot of stress on the tack fitting no matter how the sail is rigged. So in the interest of better safe than . . ., the pad eye itself should have a direct connection to something strong in the hull. If it's a cable, it should fairly closely follow the line of the stay from the mast head. I suppose the reinforcement could be a stainless elbow attached to the stem, if it were heavy enough. I'm inclined to do a thorough job of glassing the attachment to the stem, in the anchor chain locker, rather than bolting through, but you'd hope the jib would blow out, or the sailor would have enough wits left to ease the sheets or drop the sail, before breaking the boat. Having a storm jib is because a reasonable amount of sail for the conditions is, they say, a safety factor itself. It helps keep the boat under control, and it absorbs some of the force of the wind by driving the boat forward, or forward and sideways if she's hove to. And thinking about all this is a safety factor too. A good sailor I know tells himself (sometimes out loud) what he's going to do in almost all approaching situations, even making his way into the harbor in easy weather.
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Old 02-12-2010, 21:46   #23
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One thought I had was--- No mater how big a backing plate you used, if the pad eye or backing plate is not attached to the hull some way you could still pull your deck up. Just a thought?
yes - consideration of structural loadings is important. For a larger boat, such as your 40 footer, I would think that taking the forces to the hull would probably be the best solution. For a small boat, a padeye with a backing plate to a strong section of the deck may be the solution.

Also, forces acting on the mast should be addressed and the need for checkstays considered.
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