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Old 11-01-2014, 11:07   #16
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Superior
Boat: Hunter Legend 37
Posts: 126
Re: Starting out

Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
H22 would be pricier up front, but probably better cared for and easier resale... (fun boat CC!)
There's two different Hunter H22's. The 81 to 85's is like ours and look like this:

The earlier ones are built like a Sherman tank. They have marine plywood deck core instead of balsa. The load from the mast step is transferred not only to the keel with a hefty compression post, it has a "bridge" that transfers mast step load to the forward bulkhead and the entire radius of the hull. They are very forgiving on rig tune, which is good for a trailer sailor because you have to step the mast every time you splash her and tune the rig. You cannot stretch or flex the hull on one of these boats by over-tensioning the rig. The rig will fail first.

They are also VERY fun to sail and have the feel of a racing boat because the tiller is light and responsive and when you pull a line things happen right now. And it has a big roomy cockpit, with a built-in folding teak table, that rivals most 30 foot boats.

The later Hunter H22's look like this:

These later ones don't even really have a rig. It's not a masthead sloop. I don't know what you call it. A half a masthead sloop? I guess they're more trailerable because they're lighter. But I don't think it matches the capabilities of the older ones.

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Old 13-01-2014, 05:16   #17
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Lake Champlain,Vermont
Boat: Tartan 34c
Posts: 36
Re: Starting out

We started with a 1969 Macgregor/Venture 22. It was a great little boat, easy to trailer and we could be sailing within1/2 hour of pulling in to the boat ramp. We used it on Lake Champlain and it gave us days of fun.

The 22 is not water ballast. It has a 500l lb swing keel. In early ones like ours, the keel is made up of 3 iron plates covered in fiberglass and faired to shape. Be careful of water intrusion in the keel, as the iron can rust and swell, trapping the keel in the trunk.

The systems are simple, and cheap to maintain. We decided to move up after trying to use the Mac in the coastal waters of New Hampshire. We felt like a cork in a bathtub!

There are lots of good boats in the 22 to 25 foot range that would work. Okay, Catalina, Tanzer are just some that come to mind. I would keep the Mac on the list too.

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Old 14-01-2014, 08:00   #18
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12
Re: Starting out

What questions do I need to ask someone selling their boat, to insure I am buying something that will float? The last thing I want to do is get saddled with something that is not sea worthy.
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Old 14-01-2014, 08:41   #19
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Location: Vancouver, BC
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Re: Starting Out

What about the West Wight Potters? I've heard good things about them although no experience myself.
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Old 14-01-2014, 08:43   #20
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Charleston, SC
Boat: Tayana 37
Posts: 704
Re: Starting Out

Ask them about their maintenance regime. If it seems spotty or that they haven't done a lot recently, either give them a low offer to compensate for you having to perform the deffered maintenance or walk away.

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Old 14-01-2014, 08:53   #21
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Re: Starting Out

Don't be afraid to ask your seller about anything you're not sure of. You can ask about things like when was the last time the cutlass bearing was repacked, how old is the standing rigging, etc.. But what I would suggest is that if you find a boat that you are really interested in and do not have the experience or knowledge of boats and their systems to properly access its condition yourself, spend the money on an independent survey on it. The survey will give you several pages of a "checklist" of items the surveyor looked over and their condition and his/her recommendation of condition or seaworthiness. There are too many variables from things like thru-hulls and seacocks, to electrical system, and mechanical condition of components to cover here.

If you have the experience with boats to be able to look at that crack by the mast step and say yeah that's just a gelcoat stress crack or yeah we got a structural crack in the cabin trunk and what's going on here, I would say a survey on a cheaper boat is not worthwhile. But if you do not know about those things, getting the survey done will tell you, being done by somebody who does have the experience to properly assess its condition. You can sometimes save the money spent on a survey in making an offer on a boat that is less than the asking price if the survey finds something that's repairable but even the seller didn't know about.

So it's like this - you find a boat with an asking price of $2,000. Is it going to be worth it to have a $1,000 survey done on it? Probably not. Just look the boat over, figuring that you're going to have to fix anything that's bad. And as long as it floats you're getting what you pay for.

Or the boat has an asking price of $30,000. Now a $1,000 survey is cheap to know that what you're spending your money on is not going to cost you another $30,000 in repairs.
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Old 14-01-2014, 09:03   #22
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Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 985
Re: Starting Out

The older Macgregors like the Venture 21, 222, 23' Venture of Newport, and the 25 are all swing keel boats with no water ballast. They are also faster under sail than the water ballasted 26. With a smooth bottom and enough wind they'll also get on a plane downwind for the adventurous. Some of them need caulking around the deck to hull joint now and the light build can get cracks in the deck gelcoat around hardware fittings as some items should have backing pads installed. The classic look cutter the 23' was designed by Clark Mills and the molds went on to become the Compac 23.
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Old 14-01-2014, 09:59   #23
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Boat: 1973 Easterly 36
Posts: 452
Re: Starting Out

My first mono was a 1982 Oday 22 paid $2500 here in Michigan. It was a great boat to weekend, daysail, or do short cruises on. No real standing headroom down below about 5'. However, It did come with a porta potty head, single burner butane stove, sink and water tank, table down below, and sleeping room for 4 adults. Come to think of it the all the bunks had more than enough room for me at 6'2". It came with a 9.9 Johnson electric start, that charged the batteries. They have a swing keel as well. It was on a shorelander trailer and easy enough to launch. I towed it with an 80's suburban.

All in all I thought the build quality was pretty good and the gel coat still looked nice. The sailing qualities I wasn't really qualified to rate when I owned it. Being under no illusions it wasn't going to win any races but man did we have FUN! Overall I'd say it was a great starter boat small and easy to care for and store in the winter.

I'm sure I'll take flak for this bur person experience says don't worry too much about rigging age here in Michigan. We see no salt and that does wonders for the longevity of the rig, however if it's really old 30yr its probably time to replace. Do inspect it for obvious cracking or broken and missing pieces or frayed wires.

If you find something that looks good in the West or Central Michigan area and want someone to check it out (a somewhat trained eye but no sureveyor) before you make the long drive, or someone to come with give me a PM and I can give you my number. Good luck and happy hunting!
"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea." Antoine de
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Old 25-02-2014, 21:33   #24
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Location: Antelope, CA
Boat: 1977 Clipper Marine 32'
Posts: 119
Re: Starting Out

What to buy? Time to slow down, That Artic air will keep you off the lake for a while. I you really want to check out a new boat, have to seller take you out sailing! Put the boat thru the paces and you will have a pretty good idea of her condition. I had a Mac 23 with a cast iron swing keel. Loved it, in the water in 20-30 minutes and even handled SF bay waters on a nice day. Always sail before the sell.

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