Starting at the bottom

[AudreyK]

Hi People
this is my first post, Im new to sailing, having just completed my first course - the RYA Comp crew course, and saving for the next one- Day Skipper theory; ie nav & road rules. I have a 2 to 4 year plan - 2 years - sell house and buy a boat - in 4 years go cruising - initially a circumnavigation of Oz and tassie - several years duration at least to raelly get to know our coastline.
now my home port is brissy and the waters of morton bay, Dolphins, dugong, seaturtles and quite good wreck diving, you know just the usual stuff - but fairly shallow, as is a lot of the coast around Oz - now for the Question! It seems that a boat with twin bilge keels and a skeg hung rudder would be ideal in such waters, able to sit high and dry when the tide goes out - But how do they sail????
Audrey

[GordMay]

You might be interested in reading:
The Advantages of Twin Keels ~ by Patrick J. Bray
http://www.boatbuilding.com/article....gesoftwinkeels

and the several discussions on the Boat Design Forums
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/

[mudnut]

AudreyK,Gday,I too am in Brisbane"Ipswich to be exact"I have the same thoughts along the line of Twinies,but unfortunately there are not to many around.Yachthub have 1 for sale in QLD and its a nice yacht.Mudnut.

[cat man do]

Hi AudreyK, and welcome to the forum. I have sailed Moreton Bay and surrounds for 25 years and have had a few monohulls. My honest opinion is a multi as the way to go in these waters and in fact for any coastal work around our great country.

So many great spots to visit that even your twin keeler won't get to.

A Touch more expensive though. A Seawind 24 was a good first cat in my opinion.

Have fun

Dave

[hellosailor]

Gord, that's an interesting article and if the author is right, we can expect traditional keelboats to die out. Meanwhile...here in the US, twin keels are only slightly more common than unicorns. AFAIK onlythe Brits have really taken to using them, and that mainly so they can sit in the mudflats at low tide.

Are twin keels really in use in Oz? Has the author, in the two years since writing, gotten any of his superior boat plans into production? Or is this still a theory looking for a market?

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Audrey K,
Hope you get a chance to do the meets and greets section of the forum. Anyway, welcome aboard. I see twin keelers every now and then on eBay and they seem mostly from the UK. You can always get whatever you think is a wonderful boat and then cut off the center keel and add your own bilge keels or just get a shoal keel boat and add two more on each side.
Kind Regards, JohnL

[GordMay]

hellosailor: Patrick Bray’s Twin Keel project seems to be in the research & testing stage.
From the website of BRAY YACHT DESIGN AND RESEARCH LTD (PATRICK J. BRAY, NA, et al)
http://www.brayyachtdesign.bc.ca/pat.html
Projects:
11.5 METRE 38'-0" motorsailer model tested to 14 knots using 75 s.h.p. This vessel also explored the use of twin keels to give increased performance and shallow draft. The test results where very encouraging but more work remains to be done.

See also:

”Twin Keels on Sailing Yachts” ~ Nels Tomlinson
http://www.geocities.com/nelstomlins...win.keels.html

Which includes some additional Twin Keel Links
Lord Riverdale's Twin Keel paper is the seminal work in this field.
Dr. John Letcher wrote an article entitled Why Twin Keels in which he makes an excellent case for them for cruising.
Nils Lucander wrote an interesting article about the wave cancellation effect of twin keels. You'll find it at these two links: Eyeing the Pump Effect page 1 and Eyeing the Pump Effect page 2
Patrick Bray has an article on twin keels. Of course, he quotes the Riverdale paper.

[AudreyK]

Thanks for that link Gord, looks like twin keels will stay on my list of possibilities . Dave, I have considered cats, but alas funds are the issue - so monohulls are the best compromise and with Alan Wheeler being such an excelent advocate for ferro hulls, they are staying on my list of possibilities too - so I WILL be able to afford a half decent boat!
Mudnut - did you say Ipswich? is this a small planet or what? me too
Skiprjohn - I will do the meets and greats section! This BB is great Ive already learnt heaps- just by lurking - just think what I can learn by asking
Audrey

[swagman]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

Aloha Audrey K,
Hope you get a chance to do the meets and greets section of the forum. Anyway, welcome aboard. I see twin keelers every now and then on eBay and they seem mostly from the UK. You can always get whatever you think is a wonderful boat and then cut off the center keel and add your own bilge keels or just get a shoal keel boat and add two more on each side.
Kind Regards, JohnL

I know every one likes giving advice but as a newbie, you'll need to appreciate 'cutting off a centre keel and adding your own bilge keels' as suggested above is NOT the kind of task one would normally consider. The work involved in such a modification is, in my opinion, far to great to justify the outcome.

Re your orginal question. Practically bilge keelers do not sail as well as a fin keel boat, but they are popular especially in the UK where owners do not have deeper water berths. Many UK small harbours dry out at low tide, so a bilge keel boat is a good compromise that allows for such mooring. In Oz you'll tend to find a shallow draft or swing keel monohull fits similar needs. There are lots of those in the small boat end of the Oz market.

My tuppance worth says if you can get a floating berth then try to do so.

With a new boat you'll want to spend as much free time as you can on it - and in a drying berth you'll not only have restricted sailing times, but difficulties getting to the vessel when the tides out.

And if you can get that floating berth - then you may as well go for a shallow draft fixed keeler..............

Good luck with whatever you end up with, and ENJOY

JOHN

[Weyalan]

If funds are tight, your options will be narrowed. In my opinion, on a limited budget, the best "bang for your buck" is currently in older racing boats. you can get ex racing boats, 80's wintage, in reasonable condition, pretty cheap... say $60k - 80k for a 40 footer, 40-60k for smaller boats. Sure, they don't have all the beels & whistles of a proper cruising boat, but they allow you to get out on the water and you can always refit as you go (and as your pocket-book allows). Check out the marinas in Brisbane and up the coast (Maloolaba, Caboolture, etc) as they currently seem to be full of boats for sale.

[cat man do]

You can get some bargains in the"broken dreams " category too. eg recently new of a farr 40 with a foam /kevlar epoxy hull that the owner had cut the deck and cabin off of and put on his new go fast racing hull. Then had a real nice cedar strip/epoxy cabin and some swim steps grafted back onto the old hull,and made the layout below more cruiser orientated. She still had keel {was unbolted},rudder, diesel,and quit a few bags of kevlar sails and obviously needed a far bit of work to finish,but not huge amounts to get in piss and live on.She had all the fairing done and high build on.

AudreyK,not saying for a second that this was for you, because there are plenty of people and things in a boat that will bleed you dry, but for the more than handy types........

Any way , the novelty and maybe the funds as I think the smell of divorce was in the air, ran out and the numbers being thrown around was about $14k Aud to buy. I would have had her if I had the space, but as you can see in my pics, the back yard is out of room.

Good luck

Dave

[Tropic Cat]

Now why would anyone want twin Keels when they could have a catamaran?

Rick in Florida

[rtbates]

Originally Posted by rickm505

Now why would anyone want twin Keels when they could have a catamaran?

Rick in Florida

Twin keel boats aren't extrodinarily stable when inverted like a cat!! Just a guess.

randy

[cat man do]

Dont have to convince me, but not all people feel they have the cash. I don't have the money for an air conditioner at home or for a newer car and I certainly can't afford kid's, and I'm desperate for a holiday and ALL my clothes have epoxy on them, but I have a 50 foot cat, well nearly.

Dave

[AudreyK]

Weyalan - youve goy the price category right, but I think the ex racing boats Ive seen on the market generally have keels in the six foot plus category and very often much more. My plans (effemeral as they are at present) are more in the line of coastal cruising for the foreseeable future and the ability to get into shallow anchorages will probably win out over performace- that said, Ive crewed on a Farr 38 in 25 to 30 knot winds and had a ball!
cat man do - heres hoping that something in the broken dreams category comes along when Im ready to buy! Ive already seen a few sail? sale? by - Ive got every broker from syd to townsville in my favorites + Yachthub & boatpoint!
Rick, what can I say, some of us are just deviates
Audrey