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Old 26-10-2006, 22:47   #1
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Talking Starting at the bottom

Hi People
this is my first post, Im new to sailing, having just completed my first course - the RYA Comp crew course, and saving for the next one- Day Skipper theory; ie nav & road rules. I have a 2 to 4 year plan - 2 years - sell house and buy a boat - in 4 years go cruising - initially a circumnavigation of Oz and tassie - several years duration at least to raelly get to know our coastline.
now my home port is brissy and the waters of morton bay, Dolphins, dugong, seaturtles and quite good wreck diving, you know just the usual stuff - but fairly shallow, as is a lot of the coast around Oz - now for the Question! It seems that a boat with twin bilge keels and a skeg hung rudder would be ideal in such waters, able to sit high and dry when the tide goes out - But how do they sail????
Audrey
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Old 27-10-2006, 00:22   #2
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You might be interested in reading:
The Advantages of Twin Keels ~ by Patrick J. Bray
http://www.boatbuilding.com/article....gesoftwinkeels

and the several discussions on the Boat Design Forums
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/
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Old 27-10-2006, 01:39   #3
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AudreyK,Gday,I too am in Brisbane"Ipswich to be exact"I have the same thoughts along the line of Twinies,but unfortunately there are not to many around.Yachthub have 1 for sale in QLD and its a nice yacht.Mudnut.
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Old 27-10-2006, 16:18   #4
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Hi AudreyK, and welcome to the forum. I have sailed Moreton Bay and surrounds for 25 years and have had a few monohulls. My honest opinion is a multi as the way to go in these waters and in fact for any coastal work around our great country.

So many great spots to visit that even your twin keeler won't get to.

A Touch more expensive though. A Seawind 24 was a good first cat in my opinion.

Have fun

Dave
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Old 27-10-2006, 18:15   #5
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Gord, that's an interesting article and if the author is right, we can expect traditional keelboats to die out. Meanwhile...here in the US, twin keels are only slightly more common than unicorns. AFAIK onlythe Brits have really taken to using them, and that mainly so they can sit in the mudflats at low tide.

Are twin keels really in use in Oz? Has the author, in the two years since writing, gotten any of his superior boat plans into production? Or is this still a theory looking for a market?
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Old 27-10-2006, 21:20   #6
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Aloha Audrey K,
Hope you get a chance to do the meets and greets section of the forum. Anyway, welcome aboard. I see twin keelers every now and then on eBay and they seem mostly from the UK. You can always get whatever you think is a wonderful boat and then cut off the center keel and add your own bilge keels or just get a shoal keel boat and add two more on each side.
Kind Regards, JohnL
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Old 28-10-2006, 03:33   #7
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hellosailor: Patrick Bray’s Twin Keel project seems to be in the research & testing stage.
From the website of BRAY YACHT DESIGN AND RESEARCH LTD (PATRICK J. BRAY, NA, et al)
http://www.brayyachtdesign.bc.ca/pat.html
Projects:
11.5 METRE 38'-0" motorsailer model tested to 14 knots using 75 s.h.p. This vessel also explored the use of twin keels to give increased performance and shallow draft. The test results where very encouraging but more work remains to be done.


See also:

”Twin Keels on Sailing Yachts” ~ Nels Tomlinson
http://www.geocities.com/nelstomlins...win.keels.html

Which includes some additional Twin Keel Links
Lord Riverdale's Twin Keel paper is the seminal work in this field.
Dr. John Letcher wrote an article entitled Why Twin Keels in which he makes an excellent case for them for cruising.
Nils Lucander wrote an interesting article about the wave cancellation effect of twin keels. You'll find it at these two links: Eyeing the Pump Effect page 1 and Eyeing the Pump Effect page 2
Patrick Bray has an article on twin keels. Of course, he quotes the Riverdale paper.
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Old 29-10-2006, 16:52   #8
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Thanks for that link Gord, looks like twin keels will stay on my list of possibilities . Dave, I have considered cats, but alas funds are the issue - so monohulls are the best compromise and with Alan Wheeler being such an excelent advocate for ferro hulls, they are staying on my list of possibilities too - so I WILL be able to afford a half decent boat!
Mudnut - did you say Ipswich? is this a small planet or what? me too
Skiprjohn - I will do the meets and greats section! This BB is great Ive already learnt heaps- just by lurking - just think what I can learn by asking
Audrey
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Old 02-11-2006, 14:44   #9
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If funds are tight, your options will be narrowed. In my opinion, on a limited budget, the best "bang for your buck" is currently in older racing boats. you can get ex racing boats, 80's wintage, in reasonable condition, pretty cheap... say $60k - 80k for a 40 footer, 40-60k for smaller boats. Sure, they don't have all the beels & whistles of a proper cruising boat, but they allow you to get out on the water and you can always refit as you go (and as your pocket-book allows). Check out the marinas in Brisbane and up the coast (Maloolaba, Caboolture, etc) as they currently seem to be full of boats for sale.
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Old 02-11-2006, 15:41   #10
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You can get some bargains in the"broken dreams " category too. eg recently new of a farr 40 with a foam /kevlar epoxy hull that the owner had cut the deck and cabin off of and put on his new go fast racing hull. Then had a real nice cedar strip/epoxy cabin and some swim steps grafted back onto the old hull,and made the layout below more cruiser orientated. She still had keel {was unbolted},rudder, diesel,and quit a few bags of kevlar sails and obviously needed a far bit of work to finish,but not huge amounts to get in piss and live on.She had all the fairing done and high build on.

AudreyK,not saying for a second that this was for you, because there are plenty of people and things in a boat that will bleed you dry, but for the more than handy types........

Any way , the novelty and maybe the funds as I think the smell of divorce was in the air, ran out and the numbers being thrown around was about $14k Aud to buy. I would have had her if I had the space, but as you can see in my pics, the back yard is out of room.

Good luck

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Old 02-11-2006, 19:40   #11
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Now why would anyone want twin Keels when they could have a catamaran?

Rick in Florida
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Old 02-11-2006, 20:01   #12
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Dont have to convince me, but not all people feel they have the cash. I don't have the money for an air conditioner at home or for a newer car and I certainly can't afford kid's, and I'm desperate for a holiday and ALL my clothes have epoxy on them, but I have a 50 foot cat, well nearly.

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Old 02-11-2006, 20:49   #13
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Weyalan - youve goy the price category right, but I think the ex racing boats Ive seen on the market generally have keels in the six foot plus category and very often much more. My plans (effemeral as they are at present) are more in the line of coastal cruising for the foreseeable future and the ability to get into shallow anchorages will probably win out over performace- that said, Ive crewed on a Farr 38 in 25 to 30 knot winds and had a ball!
cat man do - heres hoping that something in the broken dreams category comes along when Im ready to buy! Ive already seen a few sail? sale? by - Ive got every broker from syd to townsville in my favorites + Yachthub & boatpoint!
Rick, what can I say, some of us are just deviates
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Old 02-11-2006, 21:01   #14
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Having just spent 10 days in the Whitsundays, cruising on someone else shoal draft (less than 1.5m) adams 40, I can understand the attraction of shallow draft boats. Having said that, I bough a bout with about 7' draft, and I am out there sailing and having fun. If I was to wait until I could afford the "right" boat, I would be waiting a few more years yet. For me, I purchased the best boat I could afford, and then I live with its limitation (in this case, relatively deep draft & relatively basic fit out) and revel in its advantages (in this case, having it now, plus generally being first boat to get to the anchorages)
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Old 02-11-2006, 21:21   #15
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First to an anchorage????? unless there's a multi around. Me and the other multi's we cruised with usualy slept in, stopped off for a swim somewhere nice for lunch and usualy still beat the mono's that left before us to the next anchorage. Then we'd motor up to the beach and anchor in a few feet of water .

But hey... this is so not meant as a beat up, just a bit of gentle ribbing. Afterall I've had mono's before and there are some bloody good ones out there.

Dave
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