Splurge or Economize ?

[ViribusUnitis]

I'd mention the cost issue to the father, and try to do a deal. After all, no brokers, no advertizing, no transaction costs. That HAS to be worth something to him. The next thing is that he has to be aware that your not exactly "ready" for it. As such, he really needs to throw you a line to get you truly intersted.

As such, I'd expect to get the boat WELL below market, what ever that is. I saw a line here a while back of "This is what we can afford to pay for your boat, not what we think it's worth." Worst he can do is say "no deal". If that is the case, such is life.

[Tellie]

I tend to agree with Southern Star. What's the difference between a smaller 80K boat and larger 160K boat? Other than around 80 grand there are things here to take into account. The somewhat accepted rule of thumb on maintenance is around 10% of the total value of a boat. So 16K a year opposed to around 8K a year. If we use a three year projection that's about 24K difference you won't get back when you finally head off into the Blue. Not to get into the family issue, it doesn't sound like you're getting much of a family price. So add in three years of depreciation on top of the maintenance. Even though it's your dads boat and you know the care he gave her, it's still an eight year old boat. A boat that will be eleven years old when you are ready to leave. There will be things that will have to be attended to on an eleven year old boat no matter how good it was taken care of. The cost of these items go up exponentially with just a few extra feet added to the hull. There are a lot of really good deals out there on boats in the 80K range. Boats properly taken care of and for a few more years will still hold enough value that your losses on the sale, when ready to up grade, will be less than the losses on a 160K boat by just owning it. Especially if as you said you are considering the economy and your personal finances I'd lean toward a good smaller boat. Now if Pops relents and hands out the family discount and it's available for around 100K then that's a different story. If he holds to just barely under market value, be assured that there will be plenty of good 35' boats even IPs available three years from now just barely under market value.

[roverhi]

I'm in the less expensive crowd. $160,000 for a 35' boat is not a good deal. It may be market for the boat but you can find a similar sized, better sailing boat like a Bristol 35.5, for half the money. Put on the few toys you need as your longer range cruising gets closer and you'll be dollars way ahead. If money is not an issue, the IP would be a consideration but it's certainly a boat that you don't 'need' for your interim use. As has been previously mentioned, a lot of the gear may be out dated by the time you have a need for it and things like sails, rigging and canvas need replacing.

If you want a true offshore boat at less than half the cost, look at a Westsail 32. Not a good coastal boat but a proven fast passage maker in the real world of ocean voyaging. There was one for sail in Alameda a while back that was truly thoroughly equipped for all manor of ocean voyaging in all conditions from high latitudes to the tropics. Everything in the boat, and I mean everything right down to the wiring, had been replaced and done in true yacht quality by a competent owner. Price was around $70,000. Less thoroughly prepared boats are available for quite a bit less.

If you want better windward sailing performance, a Wauquiez Hood 38 would give you a 3 cabin layout for 2/3rd the price of the IP.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Jason,

HEre's a point that no one has mentioned so far: As dinghy sailors/racers, you are used to (and probably enjoy) sailing a boat that is lively, responsive and, above all, fun to sail.

With no disrespect to IP's, they really don't fall into that category. Their heavy displacement, longish keel and relatively small sail plan, while appropriate (according to some folks) for long passages, fail to provide the sort of performance that you might enjoy sailing in your local waters.

FWIW, Ann and I have found that light air performance in a cruising boat is easily as important as the ability to survive the "ultimate storm", unless you are willing to do a lot of motoring or intend to do some high latitude passages.

Finally, should you decide that the IP is right for you, get a bit of independant data re actual selling prices for sister ships. In this depressed market there seems to be a lot of difference between asking and selling prices, and frankly, the 160K$ seems really high. Sometimes dealing with family on such matters isn't such a good idea... lots of subjective influences and so on.

Anyway, your overall plan is sound... good luck with it!

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Cairns, Q!d, Oz

[mrohr]

Hi all: So much great thoughtful advice here ,it would be hard to improve on it.
Cruising costs more than you might think;polls of experienced cruisers show a wide agreement on this point. There are plenty of serviceable cruising boats out there at huge discounts that will leave you the $ To follow your dreams. Do your homework and you may find that IP suddenly has a huge price reduction.

[sailstoo]

Never been able to get this whole Island Packet thing...they tack through about 100' and in many cases (not all) use iron, or iron and lead, as ballast... not the best solution for a blue-water boat. I suppose reasons to buy one are "blue-light special" or "Dad's boat" in great shape and a good deal. Suggest other options in High Quality boats...Caliber has a similar price point but doesn't have the above issues and there are lots of good deals around in today's economy if you do the shopping

[slap]

Originally Posted by sailstoo

Never been able to get this whole Island Packet thing...they tack through about 100' and in many cases (not all) use iron, or iron and lead, as ballast... not the best solution for a blue-water boat. I suppose reasons to buy one are "blue-light special" or "Dad's boat" in great shape and a good deal. Suggest other options in High Quality boats...Caliber has a similar price point but doesn't have the above issues and there are lots of good deals around in today's economy if you do the shopping

IIRC, Calibers use iron for ballast.

[Jason from NYC]

All:

Thank you all again for time and care it has taken to analyze the myriad pros and cons of our two options. After analyzing all of this input, and some additional off-line "soundings", we now think we are likely to go the conservative route: starting smaller, on a smaller budget, with the assumption that our cruising will be local for a number of years. A few years from now when we are ready to extend our horizons we can decide whether a larger boat is what we need.

Cheers!

[SaucySailoress]

Leaving family aside, then, screw the seller down by pretending that you don't really want a familiar boat (which you know sails well and is in good nick, and perfect for your needs), but are willing to pay up to 100K to take it off his hands for a quick sail.

Nah, I don't think you can do that to a relative...

In which case you need to be honets and tell him it iw way too expensive for your needs when you could buy an older (but sturdier) and bigger boat for half the price. Unless you are rich and have money to burn.

[td1]

I would tell your dad that you'd love the boat, but it's too much money and you think he should give it a chance to sell on the open market. Let him know that if he doesn't get the price he wants in the timeframe he wants, to talk to you before he sells it cheap to someone else.

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Jason from NYC

Thank you all again for time and care it has taken to analyze the myriad pros and cons of our two options. After analyzing all of this input, and some additional off-line "soundings", we now think we are likely to go the conservative route: starting smaller, on a smaller budget, with the assumption that our cruising will be local for a number of years. A few years from now when we are ready to extend our horizons we can decide whether a larger boat is what we need.

For various reasons I think this is a smart decision. One of them is:

Many people with much more sailing experience than you, but little real cruising experience, decide to go cruising full time. They buy what they think is the best boat for them. But, one way or another, they wind up guessing at what they really want/need in a dream cruising boat. Sometimes they get it right; sometimes they don't. For the most part this has little to do with the condition, capability, or performance characteristics of the boat they choose. It often has a lot to do liveaboard comfort and amenities. All too often the boat that correctly proves to be an excellent coice for crossing oceans is not the boat they really want when anchored off an island on the other side.

The IP "seems" like a dream boat now. But, you have a tremendous advantage because you plan to weekend and vacation cruise for a number of seasons before taking the plunge. Doing this in something like a much more affordable Catalina 30, allows you to trade up when the time comes without having to guess. You will be able to make a much better informed decision about what you really need/want when purchasing your dream boat - and it may turn out to be something quite different from an IP 35.