Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-01-2009, 11:56   #151
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Thanks Bob.

If PS successors or whomever gets excited about this, blame me. Everybody else does.

I'm so far behind at work now that I actually have to do something today.

Later.
__________________

__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2009, 14:09   #152
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,458
Images: 69
Speed and comfort need not be mutually exclusive.

__________________

__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2009, 14:22   #153
Registered User
 
TAREUA's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ferndale, Wa
Boat: ISLANDER 41 DAWN TREADER
Posts: 153
This is an entertaining thread, I've burned up gobs of my work day reading it.
As for speed vs. comfort, that is subjective vs. subjective. All sailboats are slow compared to comparable ways to cross an ocean, and all are uncomfortable if the sea is rough. In my cruising history I can never remember racing as fast as I could make the boat go to reach port ahead of a storm. I might just have been lucky with my weather. I want a boat that can carry enough sail to keep its way in light airs, but not to feel skittish in strong trade winds. Some of this may be a Caribean vs. Pacific perspective. Coastal sailing I find much less comfortable than passage making. Half way to Tahiti you don't find yourself thinking, 'In this light breeze, if I don't start to motor now, I'll get in 20 minutes after dark.' A steady speed in a boat comfortable enough to allow you to enjoy the days and the nights of a passage is the right answer for me.
__________________
TAREUA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2009, 14:41   #154
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Speed and comfort need not be mutually exclusive.

LOL.

Why I have been sold on cats since the late 70s.
__________________
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2009, 16:50   #155
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colombo
Posts: 1,059
Boeing and Airbus are my own personal preferences as they do even more comfy and faster rides .
__________________
MidLandOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 01:30   #156
Registered User
 
James S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yemen & Lebanon... the sailboat is in Lebenon, the dhow is in Yemen
Boat: 1978 CT48 & 65ft Cargo Dhow
Posts: 5,816
Images: 139
44Cruisingcat

Great vid...you got some pretty serious surfing going on there.

I have to admit I'm a slow, heavy, very comfortable mono guy...but that really looks sweet.

I would have thought there would have been more pounding going on.

What happens when you quarter those following seas...is it still good?

Thanks again for the nice vid.....I could smell the sea.
__________________
James
S/V Arctic Lady
I love my boat, I can't afford not to!
James S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 10:23   #157
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 506
I think I will poke the dog with a stick:

Cruising cats and speed?
How are you defining speed?
Upwind?
Downwind?
Or a combo of both the way real boats are used.
I've seen plenty of cruising cats that were pigs upwind. Pigs I tell you.
Here we are back at trying to define "performance".
And please try not to paint me as a multi hull hater. My most favorite sail of last year was on a Farrier 28. I love a good, fast multi hull boat. I started sailing cats in 1964, Cougar cat. I'm just saying that it is best not to paint all cats with the same brush. The same way it's not smart to paint all monos with the same brush. I have designed cats and tris. I like them. But, there is a world of difference between the good performing cats and what we see marketed as cruising cats today. Treat each boat individually and look at the range of performance numbers.

Game on
__________________
bob perry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 10:33   #158
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Condominium disease. It afflicts not just monohulls.

What's the antidote to affluence? Modern sailboats: What do you do when you really can afford to have it all?

I'm not in that crowd but I think the Dashews were a step in the right direction. Long and narrow. Works for multis too. White went in that direction with Juniper.

But the market has gone the other direction: fat and wide. I think we can thank the charter trade for that.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 10:58   #159
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 506
Sure the Dashews were in the right direction
Can you afford a long and skinny 80'er?
Get real.

I am working on the ultimate 21.5'er.
We are doing it over on Ca.
It's a group project.
One man...one boat...everything reduced to the minimum.
Great performance, upwond and down.
No, you can't bring your hair dryer.
__________________
bob perry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 11:45   #160
Registered User
 
dcstrng's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Oday30-B24
Posts: 581
Images: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
I am working on the ultimate 21.5'er... One man...one boat...everything reduced to the minimum...
Ears perked up on that; can't stay in stealth mode... hopefully the conceptual outline will be available in time... ??
__________________
Larry
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/awing/
dcstrng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 11:53   #161
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The boat lives at Fidalgo Island, PNW
Boat: 36' custom steel
Posts: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
Sure the Dashews were in the right direction
Can you afford a long and skinny 80'er?
Get real.
No, but judging by what's out there these days, there are many who can go in the Dashew direction. And even more who strive to emulate. But they get mixed up and go off badly, IMO, with fat and ugly boats.

Besides, not all Dashew boats were 80 footers. I recall some mid 50 footers. There is a big difference between a 56 footer and an 80 footer.

Nevertheless, my fundamental issue is whether it's really wise, in the long run, to take consumerism to sea. Is it better to leave the consumer impulse behind when long term cruising?

Judging from what kind of new designs sell these days, fewer and fewer embrace the latter approach. Quite the opposite. Condominiumism rules.

Just saying if I were to suffer the curse of affluence, I would lean towards the Dashew model. Long and skinny. But more simply.

As it is, sailing is what I do when age has taken its toll and the knees don't climb mountains like they used to. I don't recall having many electric blenders on my climbs, and so you will not find many on my boat, 12 volt or 110. All I really need is my hammock, classical guitar, beer, and lots of good books. And if I'm really living large, a good cigar or two.
__________________
John, sailing a custom 36' double-headed steel sloop--a 2001 derivation of a 1976 Ted Brewer design.
Hiracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 12:08   #162
Registered User
 
TAREUA's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ferndale, Wa
Boat: ISLANDER 41 DAWN TREADER
Posts: 153
I can think of enough upsides to the curse of affluance that I'd be happy to try being infected. However, a big reason a lot of comfortable boats are slow, especially in light air, is that the skipper is just too busy being comfortable on his cockpit cushion to get up off his big fat affluance and actually sail his boat properly. The Puget Sound is full of boats of all makes drifting in ten knots of breeze with a limp cruising spinnaker hanging behind the mainsail. The problem isn't the microwave or the dvd player. Use that spinnaker pole hanging there ignored. It isn't a harpoon left over from Moby Dick.
__________________
TAREUA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 12:33   #163
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Southern California
Boat: Was - Passport 45 Ketch
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAREUA View Post
I can think of enough upsides to the curse of affluance that I'd be happy to try being infected. However, a big reason a lot of comfortable boats are slow, especially in light air, is that the skipper is just too busy being comfortable on his cockpit cushion to get up off his big fat affluance and actually sail his boat properly. The Puget Sound is full of boats of all makes drifting in ten knots of breeze with a limp cruising spinnaker hanging behind the mainsail. The problem isn't the microwave or the dvd player. Use that spinnaker pole hanging there ignored. It isn't a harpoon left over from Moby Dick.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!! Isn't that sorta the definition of "Cruising"????

I don't have a problem with others sailing the way that THEY want to...as long as they are out there doing it responsibly...

Not every one is out there to race or risk breaking something for that matter...If they annoy you, I'd suggest sailing on by.....beat your chest as you pass........it may make you feel better.
__________________
Kanani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 12:50   #164
Registered User
 
TAREUA's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ferndale, Wa
Boat: ISLANDER 41 DAWN TREADER
Posts: 153
Bad sail handling would not be my definition of cruising. My point is don't blame the boat designer, or the bring alongs, for a lack of speed if you haven't put forth much effort. I can blame Mazda for my car not going 120, but the only reason it doesn't is that I won't let it.

I'm all for relaxed passage making. Give me reliable self steering and a pile of books every time. I think good sail handling takes less time and effort than the poor version.
__________________
TAREUA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2009, 13:45   #165
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,313
Oh boy Bob, never fun going there. An observation: Over the course of 2 weeks in the BVI's I saw a grand total of zero sailing to an upwind destination even when the wind was in the mid 20's. I will give some of them credit for trying but the vmg looked to be 2-3 knots so after a couple of hours the jib would get rolled and the engines were fired up.

I would like to own something like Kialoa V but my wife has vetoed that. I love the power a big boat generates upwind. Gotta love watching a maxi flatten waves upwind at 13 knots. Unless I trade in my wife I think we are at max LOA.

I like the Daschew boats but feel they give up too much windward ability. Great tradewind flyers though.

Final note: Couple local multi guys (racers) are looking to trade into mono's for cruising, they have no interest in cat condos. One guy is a 7 time national champ in multi's, it supprised me to hear him say he was going to a mono.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob perry View Post
I think I will poke the dog with a stick:

Cruising cats and speed?
How are you defining speed?
Upwind?
Downwind?
Or a combo of both the way real boats are used.
I've seen plenty of cruising cats that were pigs upwind. Pigs I tell you.
Here we are back at trying to define "performance".
And please try not to paint me as a multi hull hater. My most favorite sail of last year was on a Farrier 28. I love a good, fast multi hull boat. I started sailing cats in 1964, Cougar cat. I'm just saying that it is best not to paint all cats with the same brush. The same way it's not smart to paint all monos with the same brush. I have designed cats and tris. I like them. But, there is a world of difference between the good performing cats and what we see marketed as cruising cats today. Treat each boat individually and look at the range of performance numbers.

Game on
__________________

__________________
Joli is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
'Pirates' and 'Pirate Attacks' Euro Cruiser Health, Safety & Related Gear 24 20-08-2010 15:06
Sir Peter Blake's "Seamaster," Now "Tara," Still Hard at Work TaoJones Monohull Sailboats 5 15-12-2009 15:40
Garmin 'In-Hull' vs 'Thru-Hull' Transducers La Bras D'or Navigation 24 23-09-2009 08:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:53.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.