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Old 05-04-2011, 15:59   #61
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

Honestly Bill and 97fxdwg, I'm doing the best I can to give a contrary view here which I strongly believe in - yes I have worked in wood; and yes working on wooden boat projects for a couple of years. And yes, I used to like wooden boats a lot and had fun working on them, and the great skills I at least got down to some level of confidence. But that is much different than sailing and actually going places and having the time and money to enjoy that experience. Lots of people in the yards working and trying to ragchew how great they are at sailing...working on boats in the yard.

Bottom line, OK yes I think its foolish, and I call people who perform them...well fools. But, hey, please don't take it personally. Its just an opinion, and I don't have any other politically correct word to sprinkle talcum powder on the behinds of people who read.

You like corvettes? Why on word would you want a slow moving chug of a wooden maintenance headache? Get a modern race boat...or better yet a power boat. Still want wood? How about a Chris Craft to restore?

Want to turn a few heads? You can't beat some of those listings I left above. Go for ALL wood. Just want to work in wood? Why not get something chineable - like a Buehler with a cement keel? Less headache of working in wood; get you out there faster than a hot penny in a monkey paw?

EDIT - after reading above post:
How about a composite cat or a tri? That would fit in nicely
50%? I would say 50% is only for outfitting. Another 30% for fixing.
check out the yards - plenty of wooden project boats cheap!
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Old 05-04-2011, 16:03   #62
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

All three of my cruising boats have been made mostly of wood. The first one was covered with varnish and oiled Mahogany. The second had just a bit of the oiled teak cockpit combing showing. My current boat is ALL epoxy glassed over, and painted!

If you want to "cruise" you need a low maintenance boat. This boat you're considering makes more sense for someone who sails locally, and is into the boat more for the artistic expression of it. (I know, I've been there). My three boat projects took WAY too long for having this afliction.

In the tropics you will need to add a couple of coats of varnish to ALL of those varnished surfaces, about every 4 months! Teak decks ALWAYS fail eventually, and usually it rots out the substrate over the years before a problem is evident.

To remove the teak decks, fill the screw holes and rot, glass over the sub deck, and replace it with "Treadmaster" IS a long term cure, but a helluvalottawork! OVER $20,000 worth if professionally done.

Wooden mast would be fine if built today to modern standards, in the "WEST" system, glassed over, and painted. This one is not built that way! The bolt holes are likely NOT epoxy coated inside, and Sitka Spruce is not a rot resistant wood.

If you like the beauty of her SO much that it is worth the thousands of hours of labor that she will require over the years, THEN it makes sense.

IMO... For "cruising", if that is the primary point... having "0" wood that is un-glassed and painted over, Is what makes sense to me, and I REALLY love a beautiful boat too.

Mark
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Old 05-04-2011, 16:09   #63
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
IMO... For "cruising", if that is the primary point... having "0" wood that is un-glassed and painted over, Is what makes sense to me, and I REALLY love a beautiful boat too.

Mark
the words "impress" and "how it looks" (next to the property) kept coming up, so I don't believe cruising is the main intention.

(good post btw)
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Old 05-04-2011, 16:29   #64
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

Mark, oh Mark, Sigh ( with a forlorn expression and a hint of melancholy), I know what you're saying and it makes perfect sense. Can't I do some of this work while sailing? A body needs something to do besides staring at the sea. That's kinda like staring at Kansas. Once you've seen a square foot of it, you've seen it all. I'm just going to look at it whenever they call. Heck, I may decide it's too much work. I do want something that I can sail now.

I have looked at Tartan 37's, Pearson 365's, Mariner 36's, Islanders and I really like the looks of a Chris Craft Apache 37. It has fake wood decks but I can't find much information on it. I may end up with one of these boats but if I like the lifestyle I'll have a classic looking boat next year. It's just me.

And my ole buddy SaltyMonkey, who's to say what's slow or fast. If I get a slow sailboat in my size range I may sail at 5.5-6.5 knots. If I get a fast sailboat (cruiser) I may sail at 6-7 knots. That difference won't keep me up nights. If it's about 800 miles across the Gulf that would be about 130 hours in the slow boat and 115 on the fast boat. Whoopee. Cruising is the main idea here. I'm certain I'll be on the move most of the time....at least during the first year or so.

I already have a fiberglass boat that I use on the Ohio River. It's an older 28' Wellcraft Scarab Panther and it uses at least 20 Gallons per hour. and it will run about 70-75 MPH. Make one hell of a dink if I could get big enough davits.

In my opinion sailing, like life itself is not about the destination. It's about the journey. Make as well look good getting there.
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Old 05-04-2011, 16:36   #65
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Burgette View Post
A body needs something to do besides staring at the sea. That's kinda like staring at Kansas.
you can use the time to read your dostoyevsky and toureau..

if i were a Corvette guy, with a racing boat inclination, living out my retirement , wanting to read my books when weather is loose, wanting something that turns eyes and looks good next an island, and moves faster in the wind than a hot penny handed to a monkey - tri or cat!

you can always buy a project dingaling down on the islands cheap, or have one built or build your own down there

Thats what i would do. buy a fast monkey boat to get me thrills and less work, then get a boat out of the country as a hobby and inclination
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Old 05-04-2011, 17:54   #66
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

To offer another contrary opinion, I too fell in love with a similar boat the first time around. It was a Baba 30 with lots of teak ... interior, exterior, decks, you name it. It turned a lot of heads at the dock and that's where I spent most of my time. I still love to talk about the boat and describe it to those that don't know, but I would never have one again. It was definitely not the right boat for a first timer because I did a lot less sailing than I should have and because of that we got rid of it after about 5 years and didn't sail anymore for almost 20. That's just our horror story of course and your experience my be completely different. Short version ... I wouldn't do it or recommend it for a first timer.

P.S. Hey Salty, good to see you back and in form ... where you been and why don't you have a boat yet?
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Old 05-04-2011, 18:08   #67
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

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...I wouldn't do it or recommend it for a first timer.
Exactly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
P.S. Hey Salty, good to see you back and in form ... where you been and why don't you have a boat yet?
No, but definitely narrowed my pickings down to a very healthy few. On the dole now; and soon in a startup. Preserving money. Also, want one back east near you. SF bay day sailing ain't my bag. But damn, the weather this week was sooooo sooooo nice. Wanted to be outside in it but stuck at the 'puter.
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Old 05-04-2011, 20:22   #68
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

Dear Mr Bill Burgette,

In post #1 you said:
My lifelong hobby has been woodworking and my vocation is in the electronics/electrician field.
Did you leave somthing out?

It took till post #59 for you to say:
I've sailed my whole life.....well, at least since 1969, and have always enjoyed it. I've hoped to do this since I first tugged a mainsheet.

Post #9. I'm prepared to leave tomorrow from Kentucky to see this boat. Someone talk me out of it..........please.
So allot of people tried to do just that.

You intentionally led myself and others to believe that you had little experience with boats, big or small.

You have decided to buy this boat no matter what people say. Why did your girlfriend leave again?

You are on a fools errand. Does that make you a fool? I guess only time will tell.

Sincerely yours,

Ozzie.
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Old 05-04-2011, 20:27   #69
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

@ Ozzie: Kudos to you! It takes a Western Canadian to bring some sense and perspective into this ridiculous ponder. To no avail we have tried to change his mind.
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Old 05-04-2011, 20:29   #70
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

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There are couple of reasons to get a survey. Protect your assets and so you don't purchase a money pitr
Anyone thinking of a boat as an asset is living in a world different than I. Ships and commercial vessels can be considered assets sometimes, but pleasure craft just are.
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Old 05-04-2011, 22:25   #71
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

Actually, I think Ozzie shot this thing and left it for dead back on post 43.

If that boat really has been for sale since 2008, there's a story -- and it's not likely to be a happy story. Before driving down there, I'd call the owner and ask some questions -- starting with "Are those 2008 pictures?"

If they are 2008 pictures, that raises a whole bunch of questions about the listing and the owner. Not to mention whether the dog is still with us.

Carl
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Old 06-04-2011, 02:23   #72
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzie View Post
You intentionally led myself and others to believe that you had little experience with boats, big or small.
I think you rather over assumed that Bill's initial post contained his whole life story. You could of course have asked.........

Quote:
You are on a fools errand. Does that make you a fool? I guess only time will tell.

Sincerely yours,

Ozzie.
A bit harsh.

IMO OP is as well placed as anyone to take on something like this (especially that old car thing - will be well used to the concept and have experiance of a PO being able to bodge everything ).

Don't make it ever a good idea . At least not in straight cash terms (but what boat is?) - but maybe part of his journey is the (endless? ) fiddling around on board a boat. But that is one for him to decide (and discover ). It ain't for me (and clearly not for others) - but I ain't acquired a shed full of woodworking tools over the years already. I've got a hammer. and an axe

In OP's shoes, despite already knowing one end of a boat from another I would want my road trip to include visiting at least half a dozen similar boats (in both worse and better condition - even when outside budget or you know in advance won't be buying). And by similar I mean age and construction - even if not looks. IMO important to have some benchmarks when looking at "the one". And a camera and some (large!) notebooks. and have some knowledge of the costs of likely fixes.

This boat ain't going to be perfect (being in commission is a useful sign - but is not definative that she is a "good" one), some things you will need or want to get fixed. and others you will choose or need to live with. And some things you will only find out during ownership But of course that is $25k asking. In this market (and for the vessel type and age) I can't see their being a Q of punters.......so looking for the Vendor to chip in towards your later costs is always nice

And whilst I would get her surveyed, I wouldn't buy unless I already knew the major points that would be in the report. and knew that she didn't warrant a major restoration from day 1. even if that is where you later want to go.
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Old 06-04-2011, 06:47   #73
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

Geesh folks, Let's see, where to start? Mom was from Czechoslovakia and Dad was From France. They met on a boat coming to America in 1945. I was born in 1946 so language wasn't a problem. That started my life. In the middle I lived and now I'm retired. That's about it.

My "fools errand" is also going to take me to Havre de Grace, Maryland, Annapolis, Virginia, North Carolina and Florida. I have 7 boats to look at on this journey that seem to fit my needs. There's even a privately owned Westsail 32 on the short list. It has no wooden decks and all repairs have been made. The headliner needs reinstalled. I'm just waiting for the pretty old boat to come ashore and the owners to contact me before I set out on a quest. I have no time limit for this trip. I have family in Annapolis and Havre de Grace, I'll need a hotel in Virginia, I have family in North Carolina and I'll need hotels in northern Florida. I have friends near Melbourne with a cozy spare room.

I didn't understand the rules of posting well enough to know that a biography and an itinerary were necessary. I apologize for my ignorance. I have been blessed with an inordinate amount of common sense and I have belonged to a group that lists their membership in the top 1% of IQ's worldwide since I was in high school (1963 join date). I'm no dummy even though I may sometimes be impulsive.

If the boat is a total wreck, of course I wouldn't buy it but if in needs a repair that I feel can be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable amount of labor/money then the condition would not be a deal breaker. As was mentioned, the ASKING price is $25000 and my budget is $50,000. If I can get it for 20K that would leave 30K for repairs. Well above what should be needed. Similar, older boats made of wood have sold for $50,000 or more (still not perfect) so the cost of repairs may not be enough.......or it may.

Since my first destination is Panama, if my journey begins in Annapolis, then I'll travel the ICW and outside to get to Florida. I've read nearly every post that I could find on that trip. I've been on other sites and I know what inlets are currently shoaling, where the shallow parts are, what my draft has to be, bridge heights where to go outside and where to sneak back in. I have downloaded electronic charts, I have my paper charts for nearly everywhere I could go without being lost. I have a sextant that I know how to use and I have several GPS units.

The question will be my abilities to handle my boat in varying conditions that will be expected during this trip. I have very few doubts that I will be fine barring any major malfunction. I have taken a 20' beach catamaran to Bimini several times and can comfortably sail in force 5 winds. Force 6 is a bit of a stretch in a 400 pound boat with about 250 feet of sail and a reacher/drifter but it is doable. I hope to know enough about sail trim to allow this to be a non-issue in a bigger cruiser.

Over the past few years I have read books on singlehanding, storm tactics, boat trim, boat systems and I have taken a 6 month night course on diesel engine repair. I build my own engines and am a master electrician and a whiz at electronics. I've rebuilt V-drives on my friends houseboat with no problems.I have hove to in a monohull (I know it's harder on a full keel boat). I have a 36' motorhome that has many similar systems to a sailboat. Water pumps, inverters, power converters, tankage and generators to name a few. I fix it when necessary.

Although I may be on a "Fools Journey" I have heard that God loves drunks and fools. Still haven't heard from the owners but I try constantly. Thanks for the insight but before I go..........the saying about drunks and fools......well, no, I don't drink to excess (very often) and never when I depend on my abilities to save my hide.
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:06   #74
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

and you clearly possess the patience needed
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Old 06-04-2011, 07:35   #75
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Re: Some Boats Just Do It.

I fall for beauty every time...go for it!
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