Some Advice Pre Purchase

[pessa]

Hellosailor,
Thanks for your advice if I like what I see I will definitely do that.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Out of curiosity, why do you say that being glassed inside would be "weird"? This is a common but not universal feature of strip planked construction. In my experience it means no worries about rot or insect damage starting from the inside of the hull as well as adding stiffness at very little additional weight.

Cheers,

Jim

Probably a poor choice of words! I've not seen it that way, but I've not seen a huge amount of cold molded boats either. The diagonal stripped and edge glued ones I've seen had no internal glass work. Shame to cover up all that nice cedar! Although sometimes it doesnt looks that nice in cold molding I suppose. But probably makes it even stronger.

[pessa]

Cheechako,
Thanks I am still waiting for more info from the seller, unfortunately I am away at work on a bulk carrier until the 12th of September but I had a closer look at the pics I have and on second thoughts it doesn't appear to have been glassed over on the inside.

I have also seen a nice old but reconditioned Jeanneau Sun Legende 1987 model all standing rigging replaced , cockpit teak renewed, interior wood refinished or replaced where necessary. Hull ground back to glass and re epoxied. Tomorrow I will post a link to both yachts for comment as there is a big price difference between the custom and the Jeanneau the latter being around $60k more.
Pessa.

[Curmudgeon]

I would check with an insurance agent to see if a cold molded boat is insurable (and for how much) before making an offer.

[Cheechako]

"fiberglass composite construction" No different than a balsa cored hull really is it? You're right though about checking. But that is what I would call it. or "Fiberglass sandwich construction" :>)

[zeehag]

so when did rayon begin to be made of wood--- sorry rayon is from petroleum.
always has been as a dupont product, you do not expect vegetable source?? puleeze...rayon is petroleum so are cellulose sponges made by dupont.
yes i was a dupont baby. and my dad a regional and district manager for them, as a chemical engineer..yes we were indoctrinated...but we know what is made of petroleum.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by zeehag

so when did rayon begin to be made of wood--- sorry rayon is from petroleum.
always has been as a dupont product, you do not expect vegetable source?? puleeze...rayon is petroleum so are cellulose sponges made by dupont.
yes i was a dupont baby. and my dad a regional and district manager for them, as a chemical engineer..yes we were indoctrinated...but we know what is made of petroleum.

yeah, I was wondering about that one too.....but:

"Rayon is a manufactured regenerated cellulose fiber. It is made from purified cellulose, primarily from wood pulp, which is chemically converted into a soluble compound. It is then dissolved and forced through a spinneret to produce filaments which are chemically solidified, resulting in fibers of nearly pure cellulose.[1] Because rayon is manufactured from naturally occurring polymers, it is considered a semi-synthetic fiber.[2] Specific types of rayon include viscose, modal and lyocell, each of which differs in manufacturing process and properties of the finished product."

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

"fiberglass composite construction" No different than a balsa cored hull really is it? You're right though about checking. But that is what I would call it. or "Fiberglass sandwich construction" :>)

"No different than balsa core"? Nonsense!

A strip planked hull BEFORE glassing is quite strong and stiff. A scrim supported bunch of balsa squares has no strength whatsoever. Yours is an incorrect understanding of the construction.

Jim

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

"No different than balsa core"? Nonsense!

A strip planked hull BEFORE glassing is quite strong and stiff. A scrim supported bunch of balsa squares has no strength whatsoever. Yours is an incorrect understanding of the construction.

Jim

OK JIm, does this revision help? "could be construed as no differnt for insurance purposes.." ?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

OK JIm, does this revision help? "could be construed as no differnt for insurance purposes.." ?

For me, there is no understanding of insurance practices!

All I can say is that I have had no problems from insurers re the hull construction. They want a survey, pretty superficial in the case of Nautilus in Oz, and if the surveyor is happy, they are happy. And this is for a 21 year old non-production vessel...

Cheers,

Jim

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by zeehag

so when did rayon begin to be made of wood--- sorry rayon is from petroleum.
always has been as a dupont product, you do not expect vegetable source?? puleeze...rayon is petroleum so are cellulose sponges made by dupont.
yes i was a dupont baby. and my dad a regional and district manager for them, as a chemical engineer..yes we were indoctrinated...but we know what is made of petroleum.

Fun fact: carbon fiber is produced through the control combustion of rayon fibers. Rayon is produced from cellulose. Cellulose from wood. Carbon Fiber = Burnt Wood

Why on earth would I lie about a fun fact? Seriously.

Rayon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_(fiber)

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

For me, there is no understanding of insurance practices!

All I can say is that I have had no problems from insurers re the hull construction. They want a survey, pretty superficial in the case of Nautilus in Oz, and if the surveyor is happy, they are happy. And this is for a 21 year old non-production vessel...

Cheers,

Jim

Was your boat featured years ago in Wooden Boat Magazine? I seem to recall an article about the construction of a boat very similar to yours that was built in the PNW. If so, sweet ride!

Cheers

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Delancy

Was your boat featured years ago in Wooden Boat Magazine? I seem to recall an article about the construction of a boat very similar to yours that was built in the PNW. If so, sweet ride!

Cheers

No, my boat was built in Noosa, Qld and launched at Mooloolaba. Built by Gary and Sue McAulay of McAulay Yachts to a one-off design by Jon Sayer. She has been through the PNW some years ago in their hands, during their shakedown cruise: Qld-Guam-Japan-Aleutians-mainland Alaska-Canada-Panama-Caribe-Panama-yellow brick road back to Oz... so she could have appeared in some article somewhere before we bought her in 2003.

And I think that she is a sweet ride...

Cheers,

Jim

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And I think that she is a sweet ride...

Without doubt. When I look at it I see a thing of great beauty, clearly built for and by people who knew what they were doing. A fine vessel to be sure. Wood is good. Congrats!

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Delancy

Wood has many qualities which make it a superior material for modern boat construction when used appropriately. High strength-to-weight, excellent cyclic fatigue resistance, and if harvested sustainably, it is a renewable resource that literally grows on trees.

If you are seriously considering this purchase I would recommend you pick up a copy of "The Gougeon Brothers On Boatbuilding" which would likely have been the handbook used for the construction of this boat.

Reading it will help you understand the construction method as well as help you identify the places to look for problems. Without seeing or know more, I can say that any wood epoxy composite boat has the potential to be an excellent quality boat.

Jan and Meode Gougeon literally wrote the book on building high performance sailboats using the wood epoxy saturation technique from which WEST system products derive their name.

When you consider that the strength you want in a boat is actually stiffness, the relatively low density of wood compisite construction has much to favor it when compared to fiberglass or carbon fiber composites or especially materials like steel or aluminum.

Fun fact: carbon fiber is produced through the control combustion of rayon fibers. Rayon is produced from cellulose. Cellulose from wood. Carbon Fiber = Burnt Wood

I ran across PDF version of this excellent book, see link below.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/...k%20061205.pdf