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Old 24-06-2009, 11:32   #61
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Originally Posted by Joli View Post
Gotta disagree with you here Dockhead. Docking a larger boat is more difficult and more dangerous. You simply cannot get around the weight. Can RR learn to handle it? Sure, but the cost of a screw up is much higher then the cost of a screw up with a smaller lighter boat. Would I discourage RR from getting a larger boat? No, but I would advise he gets good instruction and understand how it handles under power and in a marina.

That said we own a 61 footer weighing 65k with a 93 foot spar, we are appropriately cautious in the marina and tend to anchor out if conditions preclude our coming in. We've also been sailing for 40 years and have owned everything from lasers on up.

Just my $.02
Certainly, a 65,000 pound boat is a horse of a different color -- about three times the mass of a Hylas 47. No one said docking a supertanker is a cinch.

But I'd still dock a 47' boat with a bowthruster and a center cockpit (view!) over a 36' boat with no bowthruster and an aft cockpit (can't see what's going on) ANY DAY! No, you can't get around the mass, but you can push it around with the thruster. You just need to anticipate your movements a little more to account for the greater inertia of the bigger boat.

The cost of a screwup is going to be stiff in any case, so naturally one wants to practice, practice, practice.
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Old 24-06-2009, 12:11   #62
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IMHO, it really doesn't matter what size, brand, layout, etc as 'experiance' is relative and relevant. It would be the height of folly to attempt anything without proper caution, instruction and/or training, and common sense. Those lacking in the former and the latter, have no business sailing other than a Sunfish. The gentleman is proven capable in up to 38' craft over 'x' number of years so I think he would have the common sense to get proper experience and a berth that's not like threading a needle with baseball bat.

But then again, Excrement Occurs......

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Old 24-06-2009, 15:39   #63
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My question is: why such a big boat?
47' Hylas...? Yes, Kretschmer and others like them a lot, especially the earlier Stevens, great bluewater boat, etc.

But 47' for two people seems excessive to me.
What exactly are you planning on doing with her?

Are you going sailing with your wife or is she just joining you in the marinas and local sails?
How much comfort do you really need?
How much entertaining on board are you doing?

If you go bluewater later will you singlehand?
Easy enough in light air but what about when it gets rough?

IMHO I'd go for something smaller with a really nice cabin, maybe a pulman fore cabin or a fuller aft cabin than the Valiant 40.

There are so many boats you can get in the 38-42 range with your budget.
You would spend less, have more $$ for gear and onboard comforts
And have less of a hole over time. The costs over time in slip fees, maintenance, etc. will be huge compared to a smaller boat.
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Old 24-06-2009, 18:02   #64
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We are all in the same boat.

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Originally Posted by BlueWaterSail View Post
The idea of impending death certainly would encourage a more carefree attitude towards boat handling skills.

BWS
From birth, we are all under a death sentence. Best to embrace that concept and live your life like there is no tomorrow, because there may very well not be.
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Old 22-12-2009, 14:20   #65
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I am sorry, but I have to violently disagree with all this crud about handling a 47 ft boat. boat handling is a skill that improves with experience, but the really important thing is the experience. two weeks constant boat handling in confined waters with a teacher who knows what they are doing should solve the problem.

Where a larger boat becomes a problem is if the marina is too small for the size.

The other major problem is pride. I know I can do it, I don't have to ask for help .....crunch.

A bent boat shatters pride far more than asking for help. A real sailor knows when he needs help and asks for it in sufficient time, and is very gratefull to those who assist.

Even the best can still get it wrong, thus if you are not sure about the wind/tide effect in a berth, and the ability to get into that berth, ask for help, or ask for an easier berth.
I comepletely agree, all this " you cant buy a big boat until you have sailed loads of smaller ones" in a load of BS.
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Old 23-12-2009, 08:31   #66
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...all this " you cant buy a big boat until you have sailed loads of smaller ones" in a load of BS.
So long as Dockhead’s caution for the indispensable instruction and practice… Although these days I’m decidedly un-enamored with larger boats (probably in part because I don’t have the bank account to match `em…), properly designed larger boats can be docked fairly competently whether under instruction or after practice… when I lived aboard I often had non-sailing guests on board and on a few occasions talked an attentive, but inexperienced, youngster on the helm -- straight through from entering the marina to a stop and tie up, without touching the wheel myself… mostly it’s about inertia control, and inevitably the youngster’s parents were astonished to witness their nine/ten year-old bringing nearly fifteen tons of boat safely into her slip…

Still I’ve seen skippers with more money than sense really embarrass themselves in similar situations… Yeah, OK, I never tried it in a hurricane… but isn’t that the experience component of “practice…”
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:30   #67
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It is only physics

The larger the vessel the more time you have to tie up the vessel before she starts changing direction. The down side is once she gets away from you it is a real struggle to get back in control. One has to think ahead farther when docking a larger vessel, usually the reaction is slower and gives one time for compensating, you also need to think farther in advance, she also takes longer to slow down et cetera. The larger the vessel usually the slower the roll and more sea kindly she is, sometimes. Each to their own, give me a big slow rolling boat any day. Tying up is problematical, if the conditions are against you then don't go in, and I have yet to hear of a dock master that won't summon help if you call for it when coming in short handed, pick up the VHF and ask for help. A little prior planning goes a long way for a panic free docking. Experience does not exempt one from mistakes, it just gives you the back ground of how to deal with them.
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Old 07-02-2010, 18:08   #68
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When a sail jams and it is blowing then even a 'small' sail will be hell. So maybe just try to avoid jammed sails (e.g. go for powerful and quality furlers and slab reefing, etc.).

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Old 09-02-2010, 21:25   #69
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is a 47-49 too much?

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Originally Posted by emagin View Post
My question is: why such a big boat?
47' Hylas...? Yes, Kretschmer and others like them a lot, especially the earlier Stevens, great bluewater boat, etc.

But 47' for two people seems excessive to me.
What exactly are you planning on doing with her?

Are you going sailing with your wife or is she just joining you in the marinas and local sails?
How much comfort do you really need?
How much entertaining on board are you doing?

If you go bluewater later will you singlehand?
Easy enough in light air but what about when it gets rough?




First of all I want to thank everyone again for there input... Good question why the 47. The answer is complicated and I could never no matter how much I type achieve a full understanding in the reader, because of many factors but most importantly “you are not me”. Instead of trying to fully explain my decisions and my reasoning I will just add a little more info as a thank you to all the people that have contributed to this thread. I have a number of goals for the boat and as I continue to get more serious about this the answer of if 47 is to big for me has been settled in my mind. This is not to say that the thread is still not valuable: as it is a very difficult subject to address with many factors. I will be buying a Hylas 47-49 or Stevens 47. I may sometimes want to move the boat and not have the time to find crew “the wife included” and just need to – get it done. I have learned over time with my past jobs and my rental property that the more people are involved the more difficult things can be. This is part of what generated the SOLO part of this title. On the other hand I like people --- at least when they do not have the power to tell me what to do and the 47-49 has to do with other people. Not only will the boat be a sailboat it will be an expensive apartment when it is cold in Saint Louis. I also have plans “because I am in the middle of a mid life crisis” to use the boat to take people sailing “for Hire” and the bigger boat works better for this but again it gets complicated and not even I know the plan?

IMHO I'd go for something smaller with a really nice cabin, maybe a pulman fore cabin or a fuller aft cabin than the Valiant 40.

There are so many boats you can get in the 38-42 range with your budget.
You would spend less, have more $$ for gear and onboard comforts
And have less of a hole over time. The costs over time in slip fees, maintenance, etc. will be huge compared to a smaller boat.

First of all I want to thank everyone again for there input... Good question why the 47. The answer is complicated and I could never no matter how much I type achieve a full understanding in the reader, because of many factors but most importantly “you are not me”. Instead of trying to fully explain my decisions and my reasoning I will just add a little more info as a thank you to all the people that have contributed to this thread. I have a number of goals for the boat and as I continue to get more serious about this the answer of if 47 is to big for me has been settled in my mind. This is not to say that the thread is still not valuable: as it is a very difficult subject to address with many factors. I will be buying a Hylas 47-49 or Stevens 47. I may sometimes want to move the boat and not have the time to find crew “the wife included” and just need to – get it done. I have learned over time with my past jobs and my rental property that the more people are involved the more difficult things can be. This is part of what generated the SOLO part of this title. On the other hand I like people --- at least when they do not have the power to tell me what to do and the 47-49 has to do with other people. Not only will the boat be a sailboat it will be an expensive apartment when it is cold in Saint Louis. I also have plans “because I am in the middle of a mid life crisis” to use the boat to take people sailing “for Hire” and the bigger boat works better for this but again it gets complicated and not even I know the plan?
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Old 10-02-2010, 00:45   #70
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Road Runner - I'm jumping into the fray a bit late here, but I singehand a 49' Jeanneau and find it quite easy, easier than some smaller boats I've been on. The extra weight makes things like docking and picking up mooring balls easier, since the wind now takes a lot longer to move the boat about. While I've got a bowthruster it was INOP most of the time and docking without taking chunks out of the boat or dock isn't an issue as long as one plans things out ahead of time. I usually need a good 10-15 minutes of intense activity to get all the lines set and flaked over the lifelines and the fenders (I usually use all of them and keep a "floater" in the cockpit in reserve) but then the docking portion is quick and simple in comparison.

The space and comfort offered in a large boat a wonderful luxury.
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:50   #71
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Thanks for the comment Zanshin I look forward to the challenge. I am 50% Swiss and I suspect you may be German? I would call that an advantage when it comes to good planning --- I think It is in our genetics? PS please no genetics bashing.
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