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Old 04-06-2009, 16:36   #16
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This is going to be a tough call for me. I went to look at a valiant and it was beautiful and plenty of sailboat for me. On the other hand It was -not- plenty of “apartment in the islands” on the inside. I started out long ago daydreaming about owning the big charter boat. I have owned rental property and still do. One thing I have decided is I would like to avoid other people renting my boat !!! I have also read a couple of Hal Roth books and he has just about sold me on the smaller boat. And yes to him a Valiant 40 is a big boat------also bigger than anything I have Skipper 'd. I am just having trouble letting go of the 30 year daydream of the bigger boat.


PS I am 44.

PS PS Wow- cool Bob Perry is talking to me.
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Old 04-06-2009, 16:41   #17
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The Valiant 40 was never intended to be anything other than a nice cruising sailboat.
I hope you go on to find your "apartment in the islands". Then have fun sailing it.
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Old 04-06-2009, 16:47   #18
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For the Bahamas might I also suggest a Vagabond Westwind. We draw 4'11" and most boats come with a self tending staysail.
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Old 04-06-2009, 17:59   #19
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road runner... remember, when you are in the Islands, you will be spending more time topside than down below, maybe a lot more. So in thinking about your "apartment" think about your cockpit and (if you go for a CC) the aft deck.
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Old 04-06-2009, 18:34   #20
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road runner... remember, when you are in the Islands, you will be spending more time topside than down below, maybe a lot more. So in thinking about your "apartment" think about your cockpit and (if you go for a CC) the aft deck.
Yes, and don't forget a good bimini or other sun protection, plus the swim ladder (if your boat doesn't have a sugar scoop stern). A cockpit shower is nice too.
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Old 04-06-2009, 21:36   #21
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Thank you all for all the words of advice. I will be looking at a hylas 47 in late june early july and who knows I may decide that I do not need that much boat ,and the Valiant is perfect; as I get older I have started to realize more is not always better. Anyway I will keep you all posted and as Stan at Atlantic
offshore Yachts says “my interpretation” the main thing is to - set sail. As far as s hole draft is concerned, everything is a compromise and right now I see myself passing up – the nice harbor and staying on the water to have the extra two feet of draft.
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Old 04-06-2009, 22:53   #22
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One thing you never hear on a boat,of any size:
"My winches are too big!"
LOL

Pick the boat that you feel the most comfortable handling and can afford to maintain without going broke. For me thats about 26ft...lol YMMV.
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Old 07-06-2009, 00:57   #23
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I've never sailed on the other boats, but I fell in love with my Hylas 47. The only possible drawback to it compared to the others is in docking. Docking a big boat can be scary. I'm finally comfortable docking it with my wife, but I would probably never leave the marina if I was singlehanding.
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Old 07-06-2009, 06:52   #24
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Ok thats several warnings about docking so it is obviously a big factor. AS I am leaning towards the 47 right now I will need to think about this some more. I wonder how much it would be to install bow thrusters, I may post up A question about that later. In my other life I used to fly an L1011 as a copilot and I remember when I first started; wondering how the heck do we taxi this thing we cant even see the wings from the cockpit. Well it all worked out, there is a way to do it , the question is if I go with the 47 will I learn or will someone teach me before I hit the dock?
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Old 07-06-2009, 09:55   #25
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this sort of thing is becoming an all-too common problem

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Well it all worked out, there is a way to do it , the question is if I go with the 47 will I learn or will someone teach me before I hit the dock?
Yesterday, a fellow with a Carver 57 brought his boat into the marina in about 20 knots of wind and crashed into several other boats, not to mention a concrete piling, before abandoning the attempt to get the boat into his slip. There was a lot of angry talk on the docks after that BECAUSE THE CARVER 57 IS HIS FIRST BOAT, and he can't handle it.

I don't mean this to sound abrasive, but just because you can afford a 47 footer doesn't mean you can handle one. I don't have any trouble putting my 46 footer in its slip, but that's because I learned over a course of three decades on a series of gradually larger keelboats: a 22', then a 30', then a 37', then a 41' (that I lived aboard and cruised for eight years,) then finally a 46 footer.

If you have any question whatsoever about whether you can dock the 47' boat, then please do the rest of us the favor of not buying it. You'll find out here in the sailing community that we have absolute respect for the fellow in the Santana 22 teaching himself how to sail, but no respect at all for the fellow trying to accomplish the same thing in a Hylas 47. This goes doubly if you're trying to teach yourself the art of singlehanding.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:02   #26
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Just because I agree with this sentiment so much, I'll repeat it with a quote:

"If you have any question whatsoever about whether you can dock the 47' boat, then please do the rest of us the favor of not buying it. You'll find out here in the sailing community that we have absolute respect for the fellow in the Santana 22 teaching himself how to sail, but no respect at all for the fellow trying to accomplish the same thing in a Hylas 47. This goes doubly if you're trying to teach yourself the art of singlehanding."
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:46   #27
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I am sorry, but I have to violently disagree with all this crud about handling a 47 ft boat. boat handling is a skill that improves with experience, but the really important thing is the experience. two weeks constant boat handling in confined waters with a teacher who knows what they are doing should solve the problem.

Where a larger boat becomes a problem is if the marina is too small for the size.

The other major problem is pride. I know I can do it, I don't have to ask for help .....crunch.

A bent boat shatters pride far more than asking for help. A real sailor knows when he needs help and asks for it in sufficient time, and is very gratefull to those who assist.

Even the best can still get it wrong, thus if you are not sure about the wind/tide effect in a berth, and the ability to get into that berth, ask for help, or ask for an easier berth.
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Old 07-06-2009, 13:37   #28
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Road Runner,
You can get to know your boat pretty quickly with a good teacher and 24/7 trip or two. BUT another consideration is the rookie mistake factor. I don't know about everyone else but I did things to my first boat I'd never do today. It takes time to figure out why good sailors do what they do. Consider making those rookie mistakes on a starter boat and then move on to your dream boat. Having said that the adventurer in me must say "what ever you do GO FOR IT!"
Happy Sailing,
Erika
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Old 07-06-2009, 13:46   #29
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Lessons only get you so far

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I am sorry, but I have to violently disagree with all this crud
(Parenthetically, Talbot, I'm guessing--or at least hoping--that you were looking for some other form of discourse than to resort to violence. And surely you can do better rhetorically than to label an argument "crud.")

I spoke with the owner of the new Carver 57 this morning, right after the marina notified him that he'd best start looking for a new slip, either that or hire a captain to run the boat. It turns out that the poor fellow had hired an instructor with a hundred-ton ticket to spend a few weekends teaching him how to dock the boat. Additionally, he'd been assured by the dealer that if he purchased both bow and stern thrusters that he'd have no trouble docking it.

In my previous yacht club a fellow who'd done well during the dot-com boom ordered his first-ever boat--a new Swan 56--and then joined the club, and then started working toward ASA keelboat certifications. He discovered, to his horror once the boat finally arrived, that he couldn't really take it anywhere without professional "crew." After a couple short years he sold the boat, quit the club, and turned to other pursuits.

Anyone who has done any amount of cruising has watched as newbies with a fresh ASA bareboat certification display a complete lack of knowledge about how and where to anchor. Whose fault is this? These folks were sold a bill of goods that said if you take all the lessons (costing thousands of dollars) and pass all the tests you'll be able to charter bareboats anywhere in the world and do the cruising thing. And all too many of them end up chartering boats too large for their skill sets where all they can do is motor from one anchorage to another and hope that they can find a real cruiser at the next anchorage and anchor close to him.

No. Sorry. Hylas makes a great boat, but a Hylas 47 makes for a lousy starter boat.
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Old 07-06-2009, 15:18   #30
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No. Sorry. Hylas makes a great boat, but a Hylas 47 makes for a lousy starter boat.


I'm glad I didn't listen to that advice! But I do recommend taking as many classes as you can. Learn to drive rental boats from professional instructors before you think of buying your own. Start small and then work your way up. Then once you have purchased your own (after test sailing it) have someone who knows how to drive yours well, AND who knows how to teach, teach you to drive it. There is no reason to be afraid of a boat just because it's big, but a healthy respect and knowing your limitations will save you lots of heartache. The problem is that you won't know your limitations until you learn them firsthand!
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