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Old 28-06-2013, 09:10   #31
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this crazy or possible?

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Originally Posted by mbianka View Post
David:
I did inspect the brushes last year and they still have quite a bit of life in them.
FWIW when it is time, getting brushings rewound is easily accomplished in developing nations.

Rewind an Electric Motor - wikiHow
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Old 28-06-2013, 10:22   #32
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this crazy or possible?

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DOJ-forget the motor for a minute, this boat boasts an "all electric kitchen". Think you could boil water for a cup of tea with this set up? How about first thing in the morning at a calm (i.e. windless) anchorage? Additionally, with 1/3 of the solar unavailable when under sail, I think one would run at an energy deficit rather quickly, especially in low wind or cloudy conditions. Heating elements are power hogs. I suppose this could be self sufficient if you are one of those people who only eats raw food, but not if you want 3, or any, hot meals per day.

I think the motor presents the same problem. I like EP, but there's just not enough available power on board for the systems, because I seriously doubt anyone would forget to mention a Li battery bank of the size needed for this boat to be self sufficient in a for sale ad. Not too mention the motor is woefully underpowered for a boat of this size, but I think that's already been beat to death in the "Clawing off a lee shore" thread.

I think the point is that the seller is not being honest claiming this boat to be self sufficient. Is it possible? Sure, don't use much power. Reasonably practical? Not really. Comfortable? Fun? Dare I even say luxurious? Definitely not.
I have drifted away from the specific boat, but I agree it does seem strange that the battery bank has not been mentioned - but with boat vendors nothing is a complete surprise, on what is mentioned and what is not (see ongoing worst for sale pics thread!)......but my presumption is the same as yours, battery bank less than impressive at best - small and totally w#nked at worst!.......but even that is a "reflected in price" thing (as long as have room to install a needed capacity).

Am out of my knowledge area on size of the motor though, so will defer to those who say it is on the small side for this boat.

But I come back to the different mindset needed, for sure EP won't allow 24/7 running of every mod con under the sun - but could easily be that is not needed (for some). I am personally curious about the cooking arrangements, but if not using the oven and rings for 3 hours for every meal then not a fundamental problem - just a question of battery capacity and recharge ability........the main difference with EP over Diesel is that with diesel you only refill your fuel source once in a while (a month? - a year?) and to do that you need to visit a dock, whereas with EP you can refill your "fuel" 24/7/365 from the comfort of your bunk! (solar and wind)- the lazy side of me (the awake bit!) loves that concept! and with a decent battery bank the immediate input does not have to always match the immediate output, except for a few things - Fridge / Freezer (if you want one) and autopilot when underway (if no vane).........just over a period of time (a week?).

Having said all that, my gut says this boat is "close but no cigar", but if down the road and I was looking for a boat then I would definitely be interested - albeit probably buying on the basis that she needed an EP upgrade or 2 (and my offer reflecting that!).
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Old 28-06-2013, 10:25   #33
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this crazy or possible?

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Am out of my knowledge area on size of the motor though, so will defer to those who say it is on the small side for this boat.

in case you want to learn. i was going to do two of these in the cat per side...
Electric Boat Motor Kit - 10 KW | Propulsion Marine
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Old 28-06-2013, 10:44   #34
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this crazy or possible?

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in case you want to learn. i was going to do two of these in the cat per side...
Electric Boat Motor Kit - 10 KW | Propulsion Marine
Cheers , now in my EP links collection.
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Old 28-06-2013, 23:51   #35
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DOJ- I too am intrigued by the prospect of an electric galley. Propane really doesn't thrill me. I also agree that most conveniences are unnecessary. All I need to feel luxurious is hot water, cold ice and a laptop to steer by. Ok and a few LEDs to see and be seen.
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Old 29-06-2013, 05:50   #36
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this crazy or possible?

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Originally Posted by I.Grind View Post
DOJ- I too am intrigued by the prospect of an electric galley. Propane really doesn't thrill me. I also agree that most conveniences are unnecessary. All I need to feel luxurious is hot water, cold ice and a laptop to steer by. Ok and a few LEDs to see and be seen.
If I ever go EP an electric galley would be on my wishlist and something I would closely investigate - but not a pre-requisite (Propane / Alcohol cookers work with diesel powered engines, likely they also work on an EP boat ). In any event I have always liked to have more than one source of cooking fuel / means onboard a boat. A toaster would add to that (as long as not running 24/7!).
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Old 29-06-2013, 06:22   #37
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this crazy or possible?

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Originally Posted by I.Grind View Post
DOJ- I too am intrigued by the prospect of an electric galley. Propane really doesn't thrill me. I also agree that most conveniences are unnecessary. All I need to feel luxurious is hot water, cold ice and a laptop to steer by. Ok and a few LEDs to see and be seen.
i can tell you now our sailboat will be 80% solar.
i will be installing 4 of these.
250w solar panel, solar module 250w
that is 1000 watts. we are upgrading to 4, 8D batteries. 160AH each, 6KWH total, 3KWH useable. the panels, depending on where we are at the time will produce 6-10KWH a day. thats enough to run the main AC for 4-5 hours, or run an electric range for 5-6 hours, or anything else you want to do..
if i can find a way, i would like 8 panels total... 2KW.
i do not have any plan to ditch the gas range thou.
cooking with gas is much nicer. thou we will be getting an inductive burner

so for under $2000 you can have what your asking for.
the way i am looking at it, money flows while i am working, if this saves me $100 in diesel a month, thats longer i will stay out without working.

everyone needs solar now.
it makes no sense not to have at least 250 watts.
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Old 29-06-2013, 12:24   #38
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this Crazy or Possible?

Aloha,
First thanks for all the responses, second, I want to tell everyone that I have done a sea trial on this boat and the technology works. It works so well that I am in the process of trying to purchase this boat. Is it perfect? No, but I do think it will work in most situations as well or better than diesel/propane . . . this technology is not a gimmick, it is well thought out and maybe what's ahead in the future . . . I will post further updates and let you all know more REAL WORLD accounts!
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Old 29-06-2013, 12:35   #39
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this Crazy or Possible?

not sure what your use will be, but i can promise if you plan to cruise with it, it will not work on solar alone. sorry. i know math, and math says no.
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Old 29-06-2013, 12:41   #40
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this Crazy or Possible?

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Aloha,
First thanks for all the responses, second, I want to tell everyone that I have done a sea trial on this boat and the technology works. It works so well that I am in the process of trying to purchase this boat. Is it perfect? No, but I do think it will work in most situations as well or better than diesel/propane . . . this technology is not a gimmick, it is well thought out and maybe what's ahead in the future . . . I will post further updates and let you all know more REAL WORLD accounts!
Congrats on the new boat ..........and for sure please do report back on real world usage.

Just out of interest, what battery bank does she have?
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Old 29-06-2013, 13:27   #41
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this crazy or possible?

You are not going to replace a 40hp diesel with a 40hp electric motor for $2,000. If a boat needs a 40hp diesel in less than perfect conditions, it will need a 40hp electric motor in the same situation. A 40hp electric motor at full output has a whopping increase in juice required that will lower the range of even a huge battery bank from hours to minutes. Yes, for most conditions that max hp is not required but don't think that you are qoing to get equivalent performance by putting in significantly lesser hp electric motor than your current diesel. The catamaran people tried that with less than stellar results. Recently saw one of those electric power systems for sale for pennies on the dollar when they converted to diesels.

An electric system that has range and reasonable cruising speed is not the same system that will produce the power to buck into a stiff headwind and significant waves. I could probably easily live with electric propulsion in it's current stage of evolution but don't think I'm the typical boat owner in this day and age. Trend seems to be for more and more powerful engines to make up for errors in judgement and firing up the engine anytime speed drops below 4k. Not the forte of electric power with todays technology.

Most of all don't expect to go electric for cheap if you expect anything like comparable performance at the upper end of power need. Doubt that you'd burn significant fuel with anywhere near your proposed PV capacity. Sailed to Hawaii and around the islands for a year on well under a $100 worth of diesel. Used the engine a lot getting out of the light adverse winds off the California Coast and some flukey conditions here.

8D batteries!!!!!!!!! Do they come with a gorilla to get them in and/or out when needed. Highly recommend going with 6v batteries that won't send you to the back surgeon should you need to move them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
i can tell you now our sailboat will be 80% solar.
i will be installing 4 of these.
250w solar panel, solar module 250w
that is 1000 watts. we are upgrading to 4, 8D batteries. 160AH each, 6KWH total, 3KWH useable. the panels, depending on where we are at the time will produce 6-10KWH a day. thats enough to run the main AC for 4-5 hours, or run an electric range for 5-6 hours, or anything else you want to do..
if i can find a way, i would like 8 panels total... 2KW.
i do not have any plan to ditch the gas range thou.
cooking with gas is much nicer. thou we will be getting an inductive burner

so for under $2000 you can have what your asking for.
the way i am looking at it, money flows while i am working, if this saves me $100 in diesel a month, thats longer i will stay out without working.

everyone needs solar now.
it makes no sense not to have at least 250 watts.
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Old 29-06-2013, 16:03   #42
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this crazy or possible?

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You are not going to replace a 40hp diesel with a 40hp electric motor for $2,000. If a boat needs a 40hp diesel in less than perfect conditions, it will need a 40hp electric motor in the same situation. A 40hp electric motor at full output has a whopping increase in juice required that will lower the range of even a huge battery bank from hours to minutes. Yes, for most conditions that max hp is not required but don't think that you are qoing to get equivalent performance by putting in significantly lesser hp electric motor than your current diesel. The catamaran people tried that with less than stellar results. Recently saw one of those electric power systems for sale for pennies on the dollar when they converted to diesels.

An electric system that has range and reasonable cruising speed is not the same system that will produce the power to buck into a stiff headwind and significant waves. I could probably easily live with electric propulsion in it's current stage of evolution but don't think I'm the typical boat owner in this day and age. Trend seems to be for more and more powerful engines to make up for errors in judgement and firing up the engine anytime speed drops below 4k. Not the forte of electric power with todays technology.

Most of all don't expect to go electric for cheap if you expect anything like comparable performance at the upper end of power need. Doubt that you'd burn significant fuel with anywhere near your proposed PV capacity. Sailed to Hawaii and around the islands for a year on well under a $100 worth of diesel. Used the engine a lot getting out of the light adverse winds off the California Coast and some flukey conditions here.

8D batteries!!!!!!!!! Do they come with a gorilla to get them in and/or out when needed. Highly recommend going with 6v batteries that won't send you to the back surgeon should you need to move them.
we are keeping the diesel main, and the 3kw gen.
we will use solar for fridge, ac, hot water, all 12V, and a watermaker.
with 1KW we should have just enough, thats why i want 2kw.
its silly to dump a $10,000 diesel main to have less power.
there are time i have been full throttle at a dock. also when i went aground at low tide.
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Old 29-06-2013, 16:17   #43
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this Crazy or Possible?

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Originally Posted by petert96753 View Post
Aloha,
First thanks for all the responses, second, I want to tell everyone that I have done a sea trial on this boat and the technology works. It works so well that I am in the process of trying to purchase this boat. Is it perfect? No, but I do think it will work in most situations as well or better than diesel/propane . . . this technology is not a gimmick, it is well thought out and maybe what's ahead in the future . . . I will post further updates and let you all know more REAL WORLD accounts!
The issue is the solar panels are not enough to make this a "solar powered" sailboat, that is a big misrepresentation and for sure a 'gimmick' !
Being an 'electric powered sailboat' is a more appropriate description.
I have no trouble with the electric motor, i'm sure it works great.

The question is how much battery does it have?
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Old 30-06-2013, 00:30   #44
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Scoobert I would love to see how you fit those panels on your boat. I didn't think it was possible on a monohull of that size. That's pretty impressive.
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Old 30-06-2013, 02:45   #45
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Re: Solar Powered Sailboat - - Is this crazy or possible?

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depending on where we are at the time will produce 6-10KWH a day.
Those numbers are optimistic for 1kw solar on a small boat. At the right time of year in the right location yes , but not as an average.
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