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Old 25-06-2016, 15:52   #286
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Re: Skeg or Spade?

Cal 40

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...1o0&ajaxhist=0
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Old 26-06-2016, 02:29   #287
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Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
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Re: Skeg or Spade?

Spade rudders aren't a new thing. The Pionier, the first mass produced GRP boat in Europe, had a spade rudder. Van de Stadt was always a big proponent of spade rudders, and in an interview he describes how he managed to win over his colleagues to the spade rudder, one by one, by repeatedly beating them in ocean races.
Van de Stadt has also said, on the record, that skeg rudders actually failed more often in his experience than spade rudders...
Here's another classic beauty: The Gallant 53:

Naomi James sailed around the world in one of those...
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Old 26-06-2016, 09:04   #288
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Re: Cockpits like Amel Super Maramu

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
My boat would be faster and better with a spade. But as I've said -- I don't think it's critical for cruising boats, which aren't typically sailed upwind much. So don't think I'm actually any kind of fan-boy. I just like truth and facts.

As to boats being made with skeg keels:

Island Packet is bankrupt and not producing.
Tayana are no longer in business.
Caliber are semi-long keel boats of '70's design, produced in very small numbers.
Passport -- you are right; missed that one. How many are sold every year?
Hylas -- the new ones have spade rudders; others have semi-balanced rudders with short skegs.
If your rudder is balanced and the skeg is partial, there is not a lot of skeg to start with, about 1/3 the way down on the leading edge, but since the rudder top edge slopes up to follow the centerline rise at the stern, about 1/2 way down from an overall planform view.

49 Taswell soda blast, Gel skim-peel, barrier - 67 :: Job Photos :: Solomon Yacht Restoration, LLC

http://www.tommysolomon.com/photos/4.../51/large/#nav

I think your Dixon boat is close to this Taswell 49.....but I don't know for sure. You aren't going to gain anything measurable in pointing angle or downwind boat speed by removing the partial skeg. There is more drag from a non-folding prop by far, and as far as lift to windward, that has about 80% to do with the keel's lift to drag ratio than the rudder lift to drag, being proportional to planform area.

Sailing upwind happens more than 50% of the time it seems to me, and beam and broad reaches of any distance are less common, since apparent wind shifts forward. Out boat goes to windward well for a cutter with a roller main. No complaints at all.

How close can you sail to the wind, apparent wind angle, effectively, with and without your staysail ?

How is your main furled and does it have battens ?
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Old 26-06-2016, 11:56   #289
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Re: Cockpits like Amel Super Maramu

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericson38 View Post
If your rudder is balanced and the skeg is partial, there is not a lot of skeg to start with, about 1/3 the way down on the leading edge, but since the rudder top edge slopes up to follow the centerline rise at the stern, about 1/2 way down from an overall planform view.

49 Taswell soda blast, Gel skim-peel, barrier - 67 :: Job Photos :: Solomon Yacht Restoration, LLC

49 Taswell soda blast, Gel skim-peel, barrier - 51 :: Job Photos :: Solomon Yacht Restoration, LLC

I think your Dixon boat is close to this Taswell 49.....but I don't know for sure. You aren't going to gain anything measurable in pointing angle or downwind boat speed by removing the partial skeg. There is more drag from a non-folding prop by far, and as far as lift to windward, that has about 80% to do with the keel's lift to drag ratio than the rudder lift to drag, being proportional to planform area.

Sailing upwind happens more than 50% of the time it seems to me, and beam and broad reaches of any distance are less common, since apparent wind shifts forward. Out boat goes to windward well for a cutter with a roller main. No complaints at all.

How close can you sail to the wind, apparent wind angle, effectively, with and without your staysail ?

How is your main furled and does it have battens ?
My boat has a different set of compromises -- the rudder is oversized, for power, and that increases wetted surface and drag. You are right that the short skeg doesn't make a big difference in the hydrodynamics, but still it is worse than a full spade. The oversized and very powerful rudder is because my boat was designed for sailing above 50N and for very hard sea conditions.

As to sailing "more than 50% upwind" -- you are absolutely right about that. Sometimes it seems to me that it's 80% of the time. And that's why you either need to make the boat capable of making miles upwind, which is hard, and expensive, or just be happy to motor quite a lot of the time (as my Father was).

To answer your other question -- my goal when I re-rigged my boat was to be able to make 5 knots VMG to windward in good conditions (20 knots apparent wind, +/-, reasonably smooth sea state). I don't think I quite made it, but I can now get upwind reasonably well in most conditions. If the sea is not too rough, I can usually manage 8 to 8.5 knots on about 30 degrees apparent, which results in a real tacking angle with no current of 95 to 100 degrees over ground, and I get a little less than the longed-for 5 knots VMG to windward, say 4.8 on a good day. But that's more than 100 miles a day, and I think that's not actually that bad.

To get to that point, I had to sell a much treasured 1970 Porsche 911S Targa, with the proceeds of which I had carbon laminate sails made, including a roller furling main with straight leech and carbon battens, and an alternative principle headsail made especially for hard going upwind in 20 to 30 knots -- a 90% blade jib, which can be sheeted inside the shrouds.

It's probably more reasonable and definitely cheaper, to just say screw it, and put the motor on, but I love to sail.
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Old 19-07-2016, 12:28   #290
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Re: Skeg or Spade?

Look at this "refit" / upgrade:

Adele’s Huisfit upgrade completed: and is ready for the Arctic
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Old 09-08-2016, 02:48   #291
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Re: Skeg or Spade?

But, But, Wait...... photo - Compass Marine How To photos at pbase.com
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