Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-08-2012, 00:21   #1
Registered User
 
CnC40sailor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: West River, MD
Boat: C&C 40
Posts: 129
Sinking ??????

I know I'm going to be chastised for this, but how on earth do boats get to the point of sinking? If you have hoses properly fitted and replaced when needed, seacocks in working order, and other simple maintenance things, how the heck does it happen (don't tell me you hit an iceberg)?
__________________

__________________
CnC40sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 00:40   #2
Registered User
 
impi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: From Cape Town now New Caledonia
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 952
Images: 8
Send a message via Skype™ to impi
Re: sinking??????

We met a delivery skipper in Fortaleza on our way up to the Caribbean from Sa ... he had been sailing on his own yacht for years ... no insurance ... very capable and cautious guy ... hit a submerged container off one of the French Islands ... the French rescued him by helicopter and hovered for a minute or two as they watched the yacht slip into the depths of the ocean. Sadly he has to start all over again ... his yacht and it's contents his only possession ...

When we were in the river system off Brazil ... we had huge logs coming down at speed ... river was doing about 5 knots ... if one of those hit us ... hmmmm!

Mates were sailing off Cape Point in SA on a cat ... hit a submerged object in a storm ... cat filled with water so fast they could not get it under control and dived down with blankets to plug the hole ... no good ... abandoned for life rafts as the boat capsized (should've stayed with boat) ... rescued by the NSRI ... boat discovered weeks later in the middle of the ocean floating upside down ... guys name is Charles Hunting.

Catamaran was sailing and caught a steel cable in the propellor ... pulled the entire stern drive through the floor which of course took more water in than could be pumped ... need we say more.

Many stories about boats sinking ... we had a near miss when our boat was suddenly in huge bubbles ... I had the engines on (luckily), accelerated and as Ana and I were looking behind us a whale breached (the entire body) and fell on it's back into the water thrashing it's tail and flippers ... we kept an eye out and literally watched it jump onto a boat in the bay ... mast came down and the STEEL boat nearly sank. Had it been fiber glass ... nice submarine!
__________________

__________________
In our own style and our own time ...
http://cat-impi.blogspot.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIy...Uhlfkd34f8FrEg
impi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 00:43   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: sinking??????

Sinking by design, all looks good until the boat heels.

Sinking by physics, that long run of piping horizontal in the bilge acts like a pump when the boat rides to a wave.

Sinking by lack of maintenance, valves, fittings, hoseclamps all detiorate no matter there composition they look the part BUT....

Sinking by bad workmanship, have seen some shocking welds on metal boats in my time.

Sinking by inadequecy, Most bilge pumps and power systems to run those systems die long before the last engulfing litre flows on board.

Sinking by Mrs Murphy, ya just can't avoid bad luck......
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 00:49   #4
Registered User
 
impi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: From Cape Town now New Caledonia
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 952
Images: 8
Send a message via Skype™ to impi
Re: sinking??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Sinking by design, all looks good until the boat heels.

Sinking by physics, that long run of piping horizontal in the bilge acts like a pump when the boat rides to a wave.

Sinking by lack of maintenance, valves, fittings, hoseclamps all detiorate no matter there composition they look the part BUT....

Sinking by bad workmanship, have seen some shocking welds on metal boats in my time.

Sinking by inadequecy, Most bilge pumps and power systems to run those systems die long before the last engulfing litre flows on board.

Sinking by Mrs Murphy, ya just can't avoid bad luck......
Nicely said ....

Do you have a theory on when through hull fittings should be replaced ... irrespective of how good they look?
__________________
In our own style and our own time ...
http://cat-impi.blogspot.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIy...Uhlfkd34f8FrEg
impi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 00:54   #5
Registered User
 
CnC40sailor's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: West River, MD
Boat: C&C 40
Posts: 129
I was talking more about maintenance issues rather than a boat owners nightmare . Although, I will certainly be a little more cautious when it comes to bubbles!

Anyway, one time I was heading down to st michaels when I saw water coming in over the floorboards. Needless to say I was scared, but luckily I didn't panic. The yard had just performed some work on the stuffing box (replacing the rings and such). That I knew, had to be it, everything had been fine prior to the work being done. It was loose, somehow, so I beat the the thing with a winch handle to make it tighter. Luckily I didn't make to tight or something much worse could of happened.
__________________
CnC40sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 00:59   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,016
Images: 4
Re: sinking??????

Leaves clog cockpit drains...
Hit a whale...
Overloaded...
__________________
daddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 01:33   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: sinking??????

I've had 30 to 40 year old 'BLAKE' seacocks that i re-lapped and continued to use.

Todays boat? Probably a ten year refit would be good UNLESS some clues are seen, I always fine sand/buff polish bronze looking for dis-colouration, gives peace of mind towards that sinking feeling on quiet nights......

I think i saw that whale picture?

CnC40sailor you nailed it ALWAYS be suspect of work just done ALWAYS......

Cheers all.
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 01:59   #8
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,750
Re: sinking??????

There are countless stories of sea cocks and through-hulls breaking off in the hands of the owner -- brass or other inferior material, or corrosion of some kind, the zinc or tin comes out of the alloy, the fitting becomes as brittle as glass.

Hoses come off because no one ever checked the jubilee clips/hose clamps, or they were not double clamped.

Hoses split.

A vented loop becomes non-vented because the vent is clogged, or the owner blocked it off because it was spurting water out. And water siphons into the boat when the boat heels -- sunk.

Propeller shaft is broken and falls out, leaving a hole in the bottom of the boat.

Rudder falls out because no one ever checked the rudder bearing, leaving a hole in the bottom of the boat . . .

A hatch is left open and for one reason or another, a bunch of water from a boarding sea gets in, the boat heels, water pours in, sunk . . .

There are, unfortunately, a million different ways for a boat to sink.

One thing I don't like about my boat is that there are about eight holes in the bottom of the boat for deck drains and cockpit drains -- unnecessary holes I think.

One thing I do like is that I have a stout watertight bulkhead between the forepeak and the main hull volume, and the hull itself is skinned in Kevlar. So I have a fighting chance of staying afloat after a collision.

One thing I adore about the Dashew designs is that there are no through hulls at all in the main compartment -- they are all either in the engine room or forepeak, separated from the main compartment by watertight bulkheads. That is just so right. I wish my boat were designed that way.
__________________
Dockhead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 05:09   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,580
Images: 240
Re: sinking??????

According to the BoatUS Marine Insurance claim files, for every boat that sinks underway, four boats sink in their slips.
There are two reasons for this discrepancy.
One reason is whenever a boat leaves the dock, someone is aboard, which leaves open the possibility that the leak will be discovered and the problem corrected before it sinks the boat.
And, reason # 2, boats tend to spend a majority of their time at the dock.

Why Boats Sink On Open Water
Reason: Percentage
Taking Water Over the Gunwales: 30%
Leaks at Thru-hulls: 18%
Leaks at Raw water Cooling System/Exhaust: 12%
Drain Plug Missing: 12%
Navigation Error (Grounding): 10%
Boat Construction (Hull Split Open): 6%
Leaks at Outdrive Boots: 4%
Struck Floating Debris: 4%
Other: 4%

Why Boats Sink at the Dock
Reason: Percentage
Underwater Fittings: 50%
Rain and Snow: 32%
Fittings Above the Waterline: 9%
Poor Docking Arrangements: 8%
Other: 1%

More ➥ BoatUS: Seaworthy

And ➥ Boat US - Online Boating Safety Study Guide

And ➥ BoatUS Magazine: Why Boats Sink In The Spring | April - May 2012

And ➥ BoatUS Magazine: That Sinking Feeling
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 05:21   #10
cpa
Registered User
 
cpa's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Florida
Boat: Compass 47
Posts: 596
Re: sinking??????

My brother lost his boat coming back from the Cape Verde islands back in 2008. His best guess is that the saildrive internals blew and that created the leak. I believe his boat was fully submerged in 30-40 minutes. He said there was a loud explosion followed by smoke and when he went below to check on the situation the boat was filling up fast. Glad my dad and I both have saildrives as well
__________________
cpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 05:30   #11
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,312
Re: sinking??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post

Why Boats Sink On Open Water
Reason: Percentage
Taking Water Over the Gunwales: 30%
Leaks at Thru-hulls: 18%
Leaks at Raw water Cooling System/Exhaust: 12%
Drain Plug Missing: 12%
Navigation Error (Grounding): 10%
Boat Construction (Hull Split Open): 6%
Leaks at Outdrive Boots: 4%
Struck Floating Debris: 4%
Other: 4%
And of course their data doesn't match what gets talked about the most that everyone seems to spend a lot of thoer time worrying about.

I bet that first 1 really only applies to small boats.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 05:34   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: sinking??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpa View Post
My brother lost his boat coming back from the Cape Verde islands back in 2008. His best guess is that the saildrive internals blew and that created the leak. I believe his boat was fully submerged in 30-40 minutes. He said there was a loud explosion followed by smoke and when he went below to check on the situation the boat was filling up fast. Glad my dad and I both have saildrives as well
That sucks, do you think an impact of some kind? So many times i've thought about such a scenario, we too have Sail-drives and a game plan is high on our agenda for such an event, fortunately the room is small so ensuring watertightness is part of our tasks. Sad thing to happen... Cheers Frank
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 06:08   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: sinking??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpa View Post
My brother lost his boat coming back from the Cape Verde islands back in 2008. His best guess is that the saildrive internals blew and that created the leak. I believe his boat was fully submerged in 30-40 minutes. He said there was a loud explosion followed by smoke and when he went below to check on the situation the boat was filling up fast. Glad my dad and I both have saildrives as well
There isn't anything in a saildrive that would, or could, explode or smoke. Maybe the engine or something stored in the engine room instead?

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 06:24   #14
Pusher of String
 
foolishsailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: On the hard; Trinidad
Boat: Trisbal 42, Aluminum Cutter Rigged Sloop
Posts: 2,314
Images: 19
Re: sinking??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
According to the BoatUS Marine Insurance claim files, for every boat that sinks underway, four boats sink in their slips.
I love it when Gord brings facts to the discussion that match my own anecdotal experience. Makes me feel smart

The saddest and preventable sinking I know of was during my stay in Malaysia. I had a boat there for about 5 years in a place called Sitiwan near Lumut. There is a small marina there and a beautiful 60 footer sat on the dock owned by an expat couple. They had just spent well over 60k on an internal refit and just after the refit was completed the man died from a heart attack. Likely from seeing the bill!!! He was only in his early 50s.

Sadly this left the wife with two teenage kids with a boat. She was a sport tho and seemed up for it and spoke about sailing it back to Australia to be closer to her family.

Not 2 months after he died the boat sank - really quickly.

Seems there were 2 - 3" thruhulls and the lads who did the refit used only a single clamp on the hose and the clamp itself was stainless but the little screw wasnt and it went. They think the other one seeming went once the water ingress wiggled its hose around as they doubt both went at the same time.

The boat went down over night and ended up slidding sideways a bit and got trapped under the dock. It took them 4 days to remove the docks and pilings and get the boat free and lifted. Obviously everything was ruined.

Rumors abounded about it being to coinicidental and that it was an insurance job. Turns out they didnt have the boat insured.

Total loss inside. Family ended up going home and trying to sell the boat.
__________________
"So, rather than appear foolish afterward, I renounce seeming clever now."
William of Baskerville

"You will do foolish things, but do them with enthusiasm."
Sidonie Gabrielle Colette
foolishsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2012, 06:29   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: sinking??????

I am absolutely astonished at the lack of preventative maintenance on most boats.

There seems to be a pathological need to use every part until it fails.

Considering most boats are 20-30 years old it is really a shame. When I bought my boat all new through hulls and seacocks were installed. All new toilet plumbing and a new toilet for good measure. A new electric and a new manual bilge pump and all new hoses.

Oh - And I just bought a whole bag of stainless band clamps for like $50. I am going to replace them all during this engine repair I am doing. Why reuse a 10 year old $3 item that keeps water out of the boat??????

This stuff ain't rocket science. And at 10 years I am going to put all new through hulls and seacocks on. YMMV...
__________________

__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.