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Old 09-01-2015, 01:45   #1
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Single Junk Rigs

I would like to know from those who actually are using Single Junk Rigs some specific performance characteristics. I understand the principles and know about some of the advantages and disadvantages of this rig, but I want to know about sailing performance.

If there is any data about how close to the wind this rig can perform I'd appreciate it.

The reason I ask is that I am considering purchasing a hull with no rigging and modifying her to take a modern single junk rig. The cruising region is to be the South Pacific to Australia.

Thanks!


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Old 09-01-2015, 02:45   #2
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

You'll find some of the information you're looking for in this thread Junk rigged schooner , Pros , Cons?
And as to the close windedness of a junk, a fair bit of such things is determined by the boat's hull form. Though, even in a hull designed to point well, you'll never come close to matching a twin hull which has a Bermudan rig.

I mention several reference books & sources in the other thread which have a lot of good information on this setup.

Good luck. Oh, & BTW, what boat/hull, are you considering putting it into?
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Old 09-01-2015, 04:50   #3
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

Junks can point very close to the wind because their sail plan is generally flatter than a bermudan, we can point ours 20˚ off apparent, no luffing, but its slow and tons of leeway. They need to go wider, closer to 45˚ with healthy weather helm for full speed, and sails with at least 10% camber for good performance. 90˚ to 100˚ tacks on the chartplotter are a reality on our boat which has a low profile fin keel. A single stick boat should theoretically be better. The chap in Norway racing an X-99 (and winning) with junk goes much closer, but that's because of his hull.

Advantage of a single stick is there's no way for the sail to be blanketed so downwind is child's play, unlike our schooner when the following wind veers a little the wrong side, we're gybing the sails around. (We leave BMs for dead downwind, its almost embarrassing..)
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Old 11-01-2015, 16:59   #4
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

Thank you for the great information! The boat that we most like is the Westsail 32. If we found a hall that needed the refurbishing and no Reagan we would consider doing it on this particular boat. A cutter Reagan has so many options to modify in the light wind that it would be a shame to remove it. But, I'm looking for simplicity more than anything.

Am I insane? I really like the simplicity of the single junk rig.

I am constantly looking at boats on the Internet and wondering about them. I was even asking about Catalina 30s on another thread. I don't know how a Catalina 30 would do with a modern singlejunk rig. I figure that with the full keel of eight Westsail 32 that's the junk Greg, though the boat is already fairly slow would be a good match.

My wife and I are in our late 40s and would like to be sailing in the South Pacific it no more than six years. This means that we will need to get our boat in the next 3 to 4 years.

Again, thanks for the great replies.


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Old 11-01-2015, 17:14   #5
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

A junkrig needs an unstayed mast I believe, and they are setup forward, so not trivial to convert a boat, but clearly anything is possible with enough effort.
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Old 11-01-2015, 17:33   #6
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

Quote:
Originally Posted by deanowens1966 View Post
I would like to know from those who actually are using Single Junk Rigs some specific performance characteristics. I understand the principles and know about some of the advantages and disadvantages of this rig, but I want to know about sailing performance.

If there is any data about how close to the wind this rig can perform I'd appreciate it.

The reason I ask is that I am considering purchasing a hull with no rigging and modifying her to take a modern single junk rig. The cruising region is to be the South Pacific to Australia.

Thanks!


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No answers, but I have one more question to add:

Can a Single junk rig sailboat be hove to?

Steve
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Old 11-01-2015, 19:41   #7
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

BN stayed mast is one of the aspects of the rig that I like. I am well aware of the significant structural modifications that must be made.

The sailing vessel Ming Ming and it's later incarnation, Ming Ming II Are conversions from the more typical rig of today's smaller sailing vessels.I have no idea how the west sale 32 would be modified for this type of rig. As I said to start with this is an idea that may or may not ever come about. I am just fascinated with this type of Rig.

As far as how you hove to the junk rig, I have absolutely no clue. This is only research about the rig. Thank you, though, I would not have even begun to think about that.


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Old 27-01-2015, 17:51   #8
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

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No answers, but I have one more question to add:

Can a Single junk rig sailboat be hove to?

Steve
Since I don't expect junk sloop owners to be posting here anytime soon (something about cruiser's forum...), I'll pitch in.

With some of the stuff written elsewhere on the net (claiming junks don't heave to etc), it depends what your definition of heaving to is. Mine is: limiting drift to 1 knot and dampening motion in a gale. Then the answer is yes, absolutely.
It appears other people's definition are different, like "heave to" = backing the jib against the mast. In that case, no, a junk can't be "hove to" since there is no jib. I prefer my definition since it describes an outcome.

We practice two methods of heaving to, for short periods, we just release the sheets and the boat stops dead in its tracks. This helped that time I had to cut a cray pot rode free. But for long periods this method can get a little noisy. It's no the flogging, since junk sails are dampened by the large number of heavy battens and don't flog. But the aluminium battens themselves tend to clang against the mast. For longer term, i.e. go down below and sleep heaving to, we drop the foresail, lower the main to only one or two panels, sheet it in hard and lash the tiller to the lee rail. This sees us drifting downwind in a 35+ knot gale at 1 knot, bow pointing 70-90˚ to the wind and calm and quiet enough to sleep it off. Can't get the bow to point closer, but neither could I with our old bermudan rigged boat.

Hope this helps.
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Old 27-01-2015, 23:38   #9
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

Capt Rottness, that helps heaps. The structural mods that must be done to a 'Sloop' rigged boat are significant. I'm still toying with the idea. It seems that the Single Junk Rig has come unto its own in recent years and is a simple rig that would solve some rigging issues that plague more complicated rigs.

What foresail are you talking about? Can you provide a picture of the rig of your boat?

By the way, does Rottness refer to the island off Fremantle? That's where I had my first sailing experience.


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Old 28-01-2015, 01:56   #10
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

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Originally Posted by deanowens1966 View Post

What foresail are you talking about? Can you provide a picture of the rig of your boat?

By the way, does Rottness refer to the island off Fremantle? That's where I had my first sailing experience.


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Not sure if I'd categorise the modifications for conversion as "significant". Add a stack of ply for the partners and "maybe" add a partial bulkhead in that area. I say "maybe" because there isn't that much stress caused at the partners as boats readily heel over in response to forces. If the partners are near enough to an existing bulkhead then no need to add one. A grid of solid timber for the mast step on the keel completes the picture.

Our boat is a schooner, but sloops can be made to heave to in a similar fashion.

Here's the boat, and yep, Rotto is off Fremantle, where I'm from. (I hope it was on a rare day blowing less than 30 knots for your sailing experience.. )
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Old 28-01-2015, 07:53   #11
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

It was a cool early spring day in 1987 when we went the the isle of the 'Quokka'. My now ex-wife and I spent a few days in Perth and managed to hop onto a 40' wooden boat that dealt with the chop fairly well. The boat did better than I did. Unfortunately, we had been running late and only had a bag of salt and vinegar crisps for brekkie. About half way along, I provided the local fish with some partly digested potato. Nonetheless, I loved it and was hooked.
It's hard to believe that was almost 30 years ago.

Lovely boat. Have you cruised her much? The region we are hoping to cruise is the South Pacific from North America to Australia. What conditions would say she operates with the least efficiency and are there aspects of the rig that you would have done differently?

I really appreciate the feed back. It helps that you are speaking with 'real world' experience not just theoretical knowledge.


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Old 28-01-2015, 22:03   #12
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

Yes, it is a popular activity to laugh at the waves during passage to Rotto. Then sit at the Quokka Arms and say things like.. “is that our boat dragging across the bay?” Bit windy over there..

We have sailed 4,000 Nm from WA’s south west over the top to QLD since launching 15 months ago. This is a flat bottomed dory hull (a Badger) with a heavy mast sitting on the bow. The heavy bow means short chop affects her performance more than most, longer chop she’s ok, its when made to go head on into short 1m waves, 2 to 3 knots speed is wiped off. A little across wave, like usually on the other tack is no problem, she will plough to windward at her usual 4 to 5 knots. Though this is normal for all boats, I suspect ours is affected more so. One passage we made was upwind into 30 knots, swell was big but long, so the boat did quite well, averaged 3.5 knots all day with the tiller lashed.

But the above is to do with the hull and weight distribution, a fast (or slow) hull is going to be fast (or slow) no matter which transverse rig is on it - BM, crab claw, gaff, junk. If you want a fast junk rigged boat, find a fast hull and convert that. You can't go wrong.

I don't think there is any region our boat cannot go. The Hill's sailed their Badger into both Arctic and Antarctic circles and endured 70 knot winds. Its the simplicity and ease of maintenance of the junk rig which suits it to remote cruising. A cruiser we met had a rip in both their main and genoa, they loaded their side decks with fuel and motored 600 miles to to the nearest sail maker. We don't have those issues, there's a sewing machine on board and the low stress rig doesn't require any precision in repairs, just patch it up, not that we've needed to do any yet.

If I had to do it over again, I’d design in more sail area, because reefing is so easy there is really no such thing as too much canvas on a junk rig. Ours has around 10% more area than a BM would be, I think 30% would be a better figure. Also a little more camber, as there is not much wind in the tropics. Cheers.
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Old 28-01-2015, 22:24   #13
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

I'm fascinated by this Rig and that it is on a 'Dory'. I see that you have a blog and I assure you, I will be perusing its contents tonight after I get some work done.

The rigging is incredibly simple to the point of being a work of art. My Wife and I will be back in OZ in early June when we head to NSW to see our new granddaughter. Where are you headed after Queensland? My wife is from Brisbane but we won't be visiting there this year as her whole family is coming across to the States a week after we return from our short jaunt to Sydney.

I look forward to finding out more about your cruising and the building of your masterpiece. Thanks for sharing and helping develop our dream.
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Old 30-01-2015, 00:05   #14
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

The dory has its own set of advantages and disadvantages, like everything in life.
I would say the junk is simple to use, a little complicated to set up though, there's more than a few lines and "sheetlets" to rig.
Btw Deanowens, check your private messages. cheers
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Old 29-06-2017, 22:48   #15
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Re: Single Junk Rigs

This post on Junk Rigs was my first post to read as a new member. Thank you (:
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