Single handed, Med vessel and moorage choice

[sepharad]

I have retired from the US to Portugal, with a lifetime dream of cruising the Med. I am taking exams and will begin mile-building this spring. I am 60 and have a small, intelligent dog. I will be single handing three seasons each year with my dog. My proposed home Port is Viana do Castelo in northern Portugal. My dog and I are now both dual EU/US citizens.

I have been focused on two craft, primarily, because of size, reputation for durability, reputation for single handed use and cost. The Vancouver 27 and the Sadler 34.

I intend to keep the purchase cost below $30,000/Euros 26,300. I can spend up to $10,000 in necessary upgrades/repairs, but hope to find the best specimen possible.

Moorage in Viana is far less than the Algarve.
It is home base.
It requires a coastal run south to Gibraltar.
It can be close to home for day/short trips, preparatory to extended cruising.

Would I be better off keeping the vessel in the Algarve, closer to the Med, or nearer home, but on the Atlantic?

The vessels I have been considering are "bluewater" capable.
They are moderate to small, for cost, manageability and maintenance.
They have adequate accomodation for a single handed cruising, in the case of the Vancouver, more than enough room on the Sadler.
They cost about the same for initial purchase, but I am unsure of the cost comparison of repair/upgrade/maintenance between the two.
The Sadler is more modern, comfortable, speedy and nimble than the Vancouver.
The Vancouver is smaller so less moorage cost, and potentially less maintenance/repair costs as all components are smaller.
They are both well reputed passagemakers, but do I actually NEED this in the Med? I will be cruising largely coastally, but will be going deep to places like Malta, Crete and Morocco.

I will most likely be buying in the UK, then sailing to Portugal. This means a delay of at least one year before purchase to gain appropriate certificates and experience.

I have considered a run up to the UK to purchase something like a Wayfarer dinghy, to use here at home during the interim, but am concerned about it's use in the Portugal coastal Atlantic, in all but the best weather.

Advice on Moorage and vessel, within my cost and safety parameters would be appreciated.

[boatman61]

Hi.. Welcome to Portugal..
If I may make a couple of suggestions..
1/ Vianna is a bit far North.. great for heading N to the Ria's of N Spain but a long run S to the Algarve and the Med. If you want to stay on the Atlantic coast then Fig da Foz would be a better choice IMHO.. the marina is a safe one 1km up river and well protected year round.. the port is open more often than Vianna which is one of the first to close in bad weather.
Also, you are between Lisbon and Porto for any flights.. 1.5hrs to Porto, 2.5hrs to Lisbon by train, less by car.
If you choose the Algarve you can spend all your time on the hook at places like Alvor, Portimao, Olhau/Faro lagoon while on the boat and not in the Med.. and when your away put her in a marina for the few weeks/whatever you are gone for. Out of season the prices are not that bad.. Portimao has a choice of three yards where you can lift out for jobs.
2/ Instead of the bigger Sadler I suggest you take a look at the 29, a great sailing boat with the option of twin (save on lift outs) or fin keels and the bonus of proven unsinkability.. also leave more for your back up fund.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/sadler-29

[Kenomac]

My friend purchased a Comet 38 in your price range located in Italy, a very nice boat. You should add it to your list.

[sepharad]

For no good reason, that I can think of, I excluded the sadler 29 in Favor of the 34. Thank you, Boatman, for pointing out what I should have considered. I CAN live with less than 34 feet. I have thought the bilge keel a neat idea for people who sail in flat tidal areas, as well as a reduced draft, but have also read it has reduced performance. Do you feel the bilge keel benefits, more than offset the performance loss?

Also, Thank you for the advice on Moorage. Convienence and availability was foremost, as I live in Viana. A 2hr drive makes access less convienent, but harbor access safer and more reliable. I will have to take a drive down for a visit.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by sepharad

I have thought the bilge keel a neat idea for people who sail in flat tidal areas, as well as a reduced draft, but have also read it has reduced performance. Do you feel the bilge keel benefits, more than offset the performance loss?

I should start by saying we have owned a twin keeled Moody 31 for a decade so might be biased in favour of having more than one keel.

I would have no qualms about taking her down to the Canaries or up to the Faroes, just the small problem of still working is holding that ambition back.

The reduced performance tends to be just the pointing ability so the a fin version will point a few degrees closer to the wind compared to the bilge equivalent. However, condition of sails, the ability to tune them for the conditions or a clean hull are likely to make a bigger difference as would a folding prop.

We do dry out regularly because we coastal sail and choose locations that fin keeled yachts can't get to. This means we avoid expensive marinas in favour of older harbours and quays. This is us in Totnes 20 miles up the river Dart in the UK, a very pretty town. We draw 3'8" so can almost park on a beach close in for a swim or enter drying harbour.

At 31 feet it suits the wifey and I plus dog well with enough room to move around, make a decent passage speed 5.5 knots whilst also being able to be turned by hand with ropes to extract ourselves from a tight spot.

Pete

[Cpt Mark]

I can't really help you with your choices. I have a twin keeled boat but it's a catamaran which I love LOL.

Now, how did you get to be dual citizenship? THAT is the important question.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sepharad

For no good reason, that I can think of, I excluded the sadler 29 in Favor of the 34. Thank you, Boatman, for pointing out what I should have considered. I CAN live with less than 34 feet. I have thought the bilge keel a neat idea for people who sail in flat tidal areas, as well as a reduced draft, but have also read it has reduced performance. Do you feel the bilge keel benefits, more than offset the performance loss?

Also, Thank you for the advice on Moorage. Convienence and availability was foremost, as I live in Viana. A 2hr drive makes access less convienent, but harbor access safer and more reliable. I will have to take a drive down for a visit.

Ahh.. if you live in Viana that makes a difference to your location choice over Fig da Foz, tho it is much closer than the Algarve.
Regarding the twin keels the small loss of pointing ability is more than compensated by the savings in hull work using a drying slip to A/F, Anodes, Through hulls etc well worth it.. Speed in all other wind directions is as good and in some cases better than the fin depending on the designer.
The only place its little benefit is in the Med itself where tide ranges get smaller as you get further in and East.

[foojin]

There is nothing wrong with expanding the range of boats being considered.

Never sailed a Sadler, so can't comment.

Owned a Vancouver 27 for over 10 years. UK built, launched in Singapore. We bought her in Thailand and sailed the Andaman Sea for about six years before my wife and I took a few years to sail her home to Canada. Wonderful boat. Very forgiving. Easy to handle. We loved her, though true she is not the fastest boat.

If you have questions, feel free...

[roverhi]

Moor the boat as close to your non sailing residence. Haven't seen a boat that I haven't spent a ton of time and sometimes money modifying it to fit my needs as well as general maintenance. If the boat is a country away you won't be able to easily do those things and may have to spend big money hiring someone else to do simple stuff. There are a lot of things having to do with a boat that you won't want to take with you on your cruise. Being able to easily offload to your domicile will make for a lot less cluttered boat. Have commuted to boats sometimes thousands of miles away and it's meant schlepping tools, etc. back and forth or buying a duplicate set of whatever so not having to haul things around.

[sepharad]

The harbor is a 15 minute walk from my home in Viana. Not ideal for going to and fro to the med, but hopefully I wont do that too often. It is less desirable for home sailing, though.

[sepharad]

So foojin, am I buying an overbuilt boat for the med? The trade off seems to be slower, less slinky and less comfort for beefier build, and lower cost because of age.

Is there something obvious I am missing in my size and price range?

[Alita49DS]

You might want to read the pilot book, and /or talk to people with experience of sailing off the Portuguese coast before making a final decision. Going South is one thing. Going North is another.

If you are confident after that then nearer is probably better for you.

[foojin]

Originally Posted by sepharad

So foojin, am I buying an overbuilt boat for the med? The trade off seems to be slower, less slinky and less comfort for beefier build, and lower cost because of age.

Is there something obvious I am missing in my size and price range?

Every boat is a compromise and much depends on how much work you are willing to do after purchase. If speed is important, I would look at the Contessa 32 and vessels like it. It can picked up for cheap, but might require a lot of work given many are long in the tooth. A friend has a Contessa and it’s an amazing sail.

[roverhi]

Originally Posted by sepharad

The harbor is a 15 minute walk from my home in Viana. Not ideal for going to and fro to the med, but hopefully I wont do that too often. It is less desirable for home sailing, though.

If you were limited in time and had a boat that you've owned for a time and sorted out for you, initially a home port nearer your cruising grounds might be better. With a new to you boat, you'll want to make changes to better fit you and there's always the unexpected maintenance with a new to you, or just about any boat, for that matter, that will make keeping the boat close to home a better choice. IF seasonal weather is an issue, you've got the time to wait for a good weather window to move the boat up and down the Portugese Coast.

If the slog up the coast is more than you want to do regularly and/or you get the boat to a point that you are totally comfortable with it, keeping it in a marina in the Med. is always an option.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Alita49DS

You might want to read the pilot book, and /or talk to people with experience of sailing off the Portuguese coast before making a final decision. Going South is one thing. Going North is another.

If you are confident after that then nearer is probably better for you.

Going N in summers is often N'lies from San Vincente to just past Lisbon and Cabo da Roca where 9 times out of 10 the wind has died and I have motored the rest of the way to Fig da Foz or further N.. If you've the time one can wait around for a window of S'lies which will get you North..
You can anchor in Setubal, Cascais and Peniche or if preferred there's marinas every 50/60nm so its possible to day hop all the way.
A good furling asymmetric should be in your sail wardrobe.