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Old 10-04-2011, 19:40   #31
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

Welcome aboard. You sound pretty determined to buy this boat and hey being hard headed is part and parcel to being a sailor

May one ask your age?
If young and gainfully employed.... well we all make our own mistakes so go for it. Me I lost about $50k all told on a fixer-upper and got a "free" USCG rescue to boot.

A bit of advice. If you like to fly or sail and that activity is your First priority then buy a plane or boat ready or close to ready to go. If you prefer to build things and the activity is not really important then a project either new or rehab can be very soul satisfying.

I wish you well!
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Old 10-04-2011, 20:23   #32
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by topfrog007 View Post
Maybe someone can explain this to me:

How would it be cheaper to buy the plans, buy the steel, and assemble it into a hull.
Vs
Taking everything out of this hull and fixing/sandblasting?

I appreciate all the responses, this is really a great community.

Also, say I got an amazing deal on the boat and it was basically free. If the hull was in too bad of shape to fix up, couldn't I scrap the steel and recoup most of my costs?
Maybe I misunderstood. The boat price + the cost to haul it was around $3,500?

The time taken to gut the boat & repair deficiencies add up. But, as I mentioned, the design called for wood construction in certain areas. If the designer did not design an option for the use of steel in these same areas then what you'd have on your hands is a large question mark. If you're experienced with woodwork, then I'd highly recommend buying the plans - if not included in the sale -and doing the boat the way it was designed to be. Still, when I glance at the photos, again, I have to stick by my & others' advice to not bother. Either way, best of luck in finding the right boat!
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Old 10-04-2011, 20:24   #33
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by topfrog007 View Post
Maybe someone can explain this to me:

How would it be cheaper to buy the plans, buy the steel, and assemble it into a hull.
Vs
Taking everything out of this hull and fixing/sandblasting?

I appreciate all the responses, this is really a great community.

Also, say I got an amazing deal on the boat and it was basically free. If the hull was in too bad of shape to fix up, couldn't I scrap the steel and recoup most of my costs?
Check out oragami boats. Brent Swain posts here, or did.

Your answer is right in your post:

"Taking everything out of this hull and fixing/sandblasting?"

vs. putting in new.

When you redo old work you have to take all the old stuff out. Most of that needs to be thrown away, then you have to remove the foam, then fix all the bad behind the foam (I can see some in the photos) and then sandblast. At this point you are further into it in time and effort than if you had bought a bare hull or built a bare hull.

Steel boats rust from the inside out. If you have that much rust on the OUTSIDE, which is easy to take care of, you have MUCH MORE on the inside where it is difficlut to take care of.

Both of our steel boats were in far, far better shape than this when we bought them, and I still broke my back with bits of rust that were not properly addressed and/or cropped up later. You ever try using a grinder taped to the end of a paint pole for a few hours? I have. You ever work with two part zinc epoxy? You MUST use a proper respirator or risk your health (I know.) Look, if you enjoy cleaning outhouses on weekends, then go for it.

As to your question about the bare value of the steel I simply don't know.
Looks like $330 per ton delivered. Or 15 cents per pound.

Current Primary and Scrap Metal Prices - LME (London Metal Exchange), COMEX, NYMEX, Copper, Aluminum, Nickel, Tin, Lead, Zinc, Iron, Steel, Specialty Steel, Stainless Steel, Nickel Alloy, Chrome, Titanium, Ferrochrome, Cobalt, Molybdenum, Antimony, P

You are then competing with this....

ship breakers - Google Search

For a comparison google this "Murray 33" on Yachtworld. You will find a couple for under $40,000. They were built right and if maintained would be good boats.


And, for my final bit of advice, you can hire Ted Brewer for $200 or so to give you some advice. Ted Brewer Yacht Design A real pro. He won't steer you wrong. And he will explain WHY he is making his recommendation.


Best of luck.
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Old 10-04-2011, 21:05   #34
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Why?

Other than to give yourself 4+ years of torture and to put over $100,000 into a project that could be worth half that when you've "finished" why do you want this boat?

By that I mean: What's the dream, the aim of the exercise. Just to rebuild a steel "boat" because it's there...

It's too much work and too expensive for a hobby, and not especially desirable as a cruising yacht when you've finished.

If you want a nice project then build a well designed 28'er out of vinylester/glass (nothing bigger). If you want a hobby build models, but if you want to go cruising then get all your cash together and buy a cream puff when you're ready to go.

Want to know how I know all this: Take a look at my blog - link just under this post.
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Old 10-04-2011, 21:28   #35
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

Well why not if you have the space and ability to do so.

I might not spend much time on that hull, but you have a lot of parts that could be put toward a new hull. Or you could part it out and get a return on your money. (if used boat parts are worth as much in your area as they are in mine)

Eighter way she is still worth a few dollars. Just go in with your eyes open.


Glenn
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Old 10-04-2011, 21:55   #36
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

I have built owned and cruised a steel boat . Everything people are saying here is correct. They do rust from the inside out . When mine was built the frames were set up blasted and painted and the hull plating was blasted and painted prior to fitting and then the welds were hot brushed. This is the only way you can get paint between the frames stringers and hull plating. ( or it will weep for life ) not a structural concern , only cosmetic - but you have to convince the person who later buys the boat off you of this . I helped a friend blast the inside of a hull - no thank you !! All the blast shot falls to the bilge - has to picked up and removed and then you have to get paint on it without contamination, its hot stuffy and dark .The repairs and effort to ressurect this hull are just not viable - If you really want this boat - put its location here on the forum. somebody else may buy it , pour all the money i nto it and most probably tire of the project and then you will probaly get it for the cost of materials. ( sounds pessimistic - but unfortunatly very often fact )There are so many half built broken dreams in peoples backyards - I m sure you can find more bang for your buck if you want to rescue an unfinished or derelect boat.
People here are only saying these things because they have seen the dream shattered when the work and expense were too much. When I was building mine I had the feeling I would never look over the side of it and see water !! The project your looking at would make mine look like childs play
By the way - the boat was 40ft and had 3/16 plate hull and 1/8 plate deck . have to be careful of that weight above the water line.
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Old 11-04-2011, 01:27   #37
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

I love steel boats, own one and have built one, but would not touch that one under any circumstances. There are some great steelies around, but that's not one of them!
Regards, Richard.
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Old 11-04-2011, 02:35   #38
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

45 years of Navy welding is not to be confused with 45 years of boat building, nobody can weld in the Navy for 45 years... So what boats has he welded?

"70 gallon diesel tank, 70 gallon holding tank, 70 gallon fresh water tank"

Looks like it's full of **** to me...
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Old 11-04-2011, 03:28   #39
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

Might be worth taking a step back and thinking a bit more. So you want to go off sailing in 5 to 7 years. Happy with that and great to have a long term plan and a goal to aim for

In the meantime how about a GRP coastal sailing yacht to enjoy and learn on rather than spending 4 years hard labour into something that could easily be a disaster and a whole heap of pain.

So a quick search of Yacht world found this, but there are hundreds of others (Craigslist) so this is just an example. It would get you out for holiday and weekend sailing with the wifey and you would have a great time. Easy to look after and have a resale value when the time comes to choose something to sail off in. You would also have lots of experience to choose the right boat then. Spending those 5 to 7 years learning to sail will be invaluable for later and can be achieved without needing to break the bank now.

Spend some time on Craigslist and Yachtworld searching locally and come back when you find something interesting and the forum will give you the good and the bad on a particular model. That way you are using the combined experience to avoid making the mistakes many of us on here have made, me included. Oh us? well we have a 31 ft GRP yacht and retirement is 12 years off so we are weekend and holiday cruising gaining experience.


Pete

1980 S-2 8.0 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - uk.yachtworld.com

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Old 11-04-2011, 08:17   #40
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Ok, you guys win! I'm not going to get this boat. For anyone interested the boat is located in Destin Fl check the Okaloosa craiglist.

We are in our mid 20's and figured that since we lack the massive amount of money needed for a blue water cruiser at the current time, we could instead get one on the cheap and slowly restore it over the years. Turns out, thanks to you all that it can be done but it's more work than we thought and not really going to save us that much money.

Seems to me one benefit nobody mentioned is that If you rebuild or refit your own boat you know EVERYTHING about the boat and how to deal with any issues the best.
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Old 11-04-2011, 08:31   #41
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

Top, no worries about getting to know your boat. Unless you buy brand spanky new you will learn, you will learn.

If it is doable, take a weekend and look at this boat.
1983 Murray Sloop***REDUCED*** Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Or, go down to Indiantown marina

Indiantown Marina

They usually have some interesting boats and a few in steel.

Look around and get an idea of what the problems can be. Have fun learning.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:46   #42
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

You young fearless 20-somethings (which most of the rest of us wish we still were) . . .

Did you see this video?
Hold Fast, a documentary about anarchy and sailing - Boing Boing

Good scrounging story.
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:58   #43
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by topfrog007 View Post
Seems to me one benefit nobody mentioned is that If you rebuild or refit your own boat you know EVERYTHING about the boat and how to deal with any issues the best.
That is absolutely correct and I am doing that with the boat I purchased. The difference is I started with a good hull and deck and overall structure so my time and money is going into: new rigging, new plumbing, new wiring, LED lighting, etc. NOT redoing a hull.

First rule to a fixer upper is start with a good foundation, figure the time and materials for what needs to be repaired, add that to the cost of the boat as is and see if the numbers make sense.

It almost never makes sense cost, time, results and any other way to start with a bad structure. Only if you are doing a restoration as a labor of love for a boat worth the effort will that be justified.

Also, there are way, way too many boats out there that are cheap that would not require the time and money this one will take.

I'm in Gainesville FL and have my boat here stripped down for a total refit. If you're in the area and want to come by to look and talk drop me PM.

Skip
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:23   #44
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Re: SHOULD I buy this boat? 35FT Steel ...

When I looked at the photos, I thought - "don't walk away from this one"

"Run away"

Looks like you are making the right decision.

Chris

PS - You should buy our Westerly instead! ;>
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Old 11-04-2011, 12:14   #45
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One great thing about fixer uppers is they give you the flexibility to have something resembling a boat much sooner than purchasing a ready to sail boat.

You can buy a fixer upper with not much money and slowly poor away your earnings over years instead of all at once!

If anyone knows of any between 1k - 10k please let me know, otherwise I'll have to settle for looking at pictures for a few more years.
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