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Old 09-09-2019, 05:57   #1
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Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

HI Everyone ...

New to Forum and getting back into cruising after many years with an eye toward living aboard. I have a three year plan to get there, which includes ASA classes, bareboat charters and offering myself out as crew.

I'm looking for perhaps a needle in a haystack as the title indicates.

I am looking for a shoal draft and ICW boat because home port will be Sarasota Florida and much of my initial sailing will be done on the Gulf coast, Charlotte Harbor and in the Keys. I'd even love to sneak into the Little Shark River like we did when I was a kid.

I harbor fantasies of sailing this boat transatlantic to cruise the Med and northern europe. I plan on crewing ARC and/or ARC Europe before I taking the helm myself.

I'm a tall guy at 6'4" and I get up in the night and don't want to crawl over anyone nor sleep alone, so I'm focusing on 42-52' CC with a center-line queen. I also want a decent sized pass through and a galley I can stand up in.

In the end it will be my wife and I living aboard. I'm experienced, she not so much. So, the boat should be something two people can comfortably handle and one can do so in a pinch.

I grew on a Tartan 34 and am partial to the classic S&S silhouette. Cost is an object - so am probably looking at 1980 - 2000 vintage.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Cheers

TBA
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:08   #2
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

The UK / Euro twin / bilge keel designs are worth looking at. To me dropping/raising centreboards is much less robust for offshore

Monohulls, heavier is better, but of course slower, not great pointing upwind.

I like smaller, so Westerly Centaur 26 is high up on my list.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:38   #3
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

Similar thread recently though perhaps a bigger budget:

Aspiring Cruiser Seeks Input on his "Plan"

You might have a problem with the size / budget / location, if you want a queen sized berth with access to both sides. A compromise might be needed.

However, there are options and rear cabins can be changed. A popular mod is to extend the double bed in one of these. Loose the ridiculous little sink next to the bed and extend across to make a master suit. Draft at 5ft is good for French canals.

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...dard%20listing

Beneteau have an interesting 36cc with a good stern cabin and shallow draft option.

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...36-cc-3572812/

Or something bigger like these:

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...dard%20listing

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...dard%20listing
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:41   #4
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBA View Post
I am looking for a shoal draft and ICW boat

You are going to have to be more specific. ICW means 65' bridges. Are you will to go up the stick and flip the VHF antenna over or do you want to clear bridges with the VHF and other expensive bits pointing up?



What does shoal draft mean? 3'? 4'? 6'?


There is lots of deep water on the Gulf Coast of Florida. What is your threshold?


Naval architect German Frers draws a lot of boats with good internal headroom.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:05   #5
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

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You are going to have to be more specific. ICW means 65' bridges. Are you will to go up the stick and flip the VHF antenna over or do you want to clear bridges with the VHF and other expensive bits pointing up?



What does shoal draft mean? 3'? 4'? 6'?


There is lots of deep water on the Gulf Coast of Florida. What is your threshold?


Naval architect German Frers draws a lot of boats with good internal headroom.
I'd rather not flip the twiddly bits at the top, but can if I have to.

I'm going to pick the number you skipped and say 5' - 5 1/2'. I grew up on Charlotte Harbor and Pine Island sound where our Tartan's 3'11" allowed us to sail rather than motor in the channel. I know that I'll spend a preponderance of time away from such skinny water, but that's what I know.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:09   #6
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Similar thread recently though perhaps a bigger budget:

Aspiring Cruiser Seeks Input on his "Plan"

You might have a problem with the size / budget / location, if you want a queen sized berth with access to both sides. A compromise might be needed.

However, there are options and rear cabins can be changed. A popular mod is to extend the double bed in one of these. Loose the ridiculous little sink next to the bed and extend across to make a master suit. Draft at 5ft is good for French canals.

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...dard%20listing

Beneteau have an interesting 36cc with a good stern cabin and shallow draft option.

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...36-cc-3572812/

Or something bigger like these:

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...dard%20listing

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...dard%20listing
Thanks for the reference to the recent post. I wasn't able to find it when I searched with the tags that I used. Very helpful indeed.

My budget seems to be a bit higher than his and the Moody links you sent. It is lower than another thread that I saw that had a $500K budget. Let's put mine at $200 or $250 as a true turnkey.

For some reason I have 5' 6" as a max draft in my head, which cuts out many of the European boats.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:35   #7
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

I think you will be safe with 5'6" for the bigger French canals from the channel to the Med. 1.8m (5'9") means ploughing some mud occasionally which many yacht accept and do.

Midi and Brittany canals are out of the equation, though and would be tight for us at 3'8"

That's a good budget, do you mind were you buy?

This is well within budget and shallow draft:

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...dard%20listing
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:32   #8
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

Those are similar criteria I used when hunting for a boat. Island Packets will tick those boxes. I own my second one now. Sailed current one to Bahamas and then to Europe, currently in the Med. Sailed my prior one to the Bahamas several times and Bermuda twice .

I live aboard now in Spain.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:34   #9
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

west coast of Florida- 5-5 1/2 is a bit questionable sailing inside besides Tampa Bay- ICW itself is fine- but not outside
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:44   #10
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

In your neighborhood I would suggest looking for an Irwin 46. I upsized from my original Irwin 38 and couldn’t be happier. Very ample headroom and the later models are inline queen master cabins.
There is one up at Green Cove Springs and a 43 at Amelia Island that I looked at with a friend. Good luck with your search.
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/sailboats/Irwin
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:08   #11
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

I have a ICW friendly / Bahamas friendly Gulfstar 47 for sale. Enough headroom for you stem to stern. https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...owse%20listing.



Best of luck on your hunt
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:21   #12
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

Bristol 45.5. CC. 4.5’ keel with Centerboard!
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:07   #13
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

Take a look at Island Packet Boats. I've got an IP380 which has a 4.5' draft and a 54' mast so no problems on the ICW (excepting of course the Marie Tuttle bridge in Miami...I've been up an down 3 times with no issues. A friend has an IP420 based near Sarasota and he's done the same. The bed in the forward cabin is a Queen with good access. The boat's designer is 6'6" tall so plenty of headroom. I"m 6'3" and have plenty of clearance
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:16   #14
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

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I think you will be safe with 5'6" for the bigger French canals from the channel to the Med. 1.8m (5'9") means ploughing some mud occasionally which many yacht accept and do.

Midi and Brittany canals are out of the equation, though and would be tight for us at 3'8"

That's a good budget, do you mind were you buy?

This is well within budget and shallow draft:

https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1...dard%20listing
Thanks, Pete. I had not looked at the moodys thinking they were deeper draft. A new world. I had planned on buying in the states, but have no real reason for that other than that’s what I understand. I’m currently living in Italy.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:26   #15
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Re: Shoal Draft Blue Water and ICW CC Liveaboard

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I'd rather not flip the twiddly bits at the top, but can if I have to.

I'm going to pick the number you skipped and say 5' - 5 1/2'.

I'm not going to challenge your choices. I will share my perspective.



Flipping the VHF antenna upside down is not a big deal, and while you're up there you can easily pull the wind instruments if they stick up. It's a good chance to check rigging and lights and running rigging for chafe. Your call.


Mast height probably isn't an issue in your draft constraints. There are a lot of people who think 5 to 5-1/2' is some hard stop. There are people who won't buy boats with more than 4'. I've taken 8' up the ICW and 9' through the Bahamas. I took 7-1/2' out of Bradenton FL.



Do you know the biggest difference between a boat that draws 7' and one that draws 5'? How close to shore you are when you run aground. *grin*


In my opinion people worry too much about draft and not enough about fit. Headroom is an issue for you. How about sailing performance?



You mentioned double-handing (1-1/2? *grin*) and some single-handing. May I respectfully suggest lessons as a really good investment? There is really no reason that any boat in the recreational market can't be single-handed. Classrooms and groups afloat are a big help but a coach is like graduate school.



If by some remote chance you are coming to Annapolis for Boat Show drop me a line and we can chat.
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