Seeking wisdom about the C&C 44

[Ozwizz54]

Originally Posted by ztsf

Not to dissuade you from your goal, but it seems you might be trying to make the C&C 44 into something that it's not. I loved my C&C 37/40XL (very similar in design), but it's a racer/cruiser (or cruiser/racer depending on your viewpoint), not a full fledged cruiser (which is why I traded mine in for a cruiser). Apart from the tankage issues, and whether there's enough room to add certain cruising "stuff" like gensets and watermakers, etc., the cockpits of these boats are set up for racing. They are very "open", and the seat coamings are very low, to enhance the ability to get out of the cockpit and on deck quickly, as you might need to in a race. I cruised mine on the East Coast of the USA, and got into some 8 to 10 ft. seas occasionally. Can't say that I enjoyed the "openness" during those times. This boat will make for a fast coastal cruiser. Not sure if you're planning to venture offshore and do a long live-aboard. If so, you might want to consider designs that that were originally drawn for that purpose.

This is precisely the type of advice I am hoping to get. I don't know the boat and, yes, she'll be a liveaboard and do some serious cruising. The first trip will be to bring her from wherever she's purchased to home in Australia. That's a minimum of 10,000 nautical miles and more if the boat is further away from the Caribbean. So, your knowledge is very valuable. I'm really trying to determine if the 44 is the right boat for me before I buy rather than making me fit the boat after I own it.

[Pineridge]

Hi David,

Glad to hear you are looking at getting back on the water. I owned a 1987 C&C 44 and enjoyed it. First of all there are two versions, deep draft being 8' plus and centreboard just under 5'. If depth is not a problem then this will not be an issue. There were roughly 40 of the centreboard versions built so they can be hard to find. You could get double and triple spreader rigs. Mast head heights were the same. The triple spreader allowed for narrower sheeting angles. There were two main cabin layouts. The standard bench seats with pilot berths or the odd time with cabinets behind and the octagon shaped which we had which was much nicer even though you lose some storage behind the seating. From a sailing aspect the cockpit coamings are angled down and outward making for a very comfortable seating at the helm. Wehad a 48" wheel but there is room for a 54" version which means you would not have to lean in. They are very well balanced and can be sailed easily by one or two.
We has air conditioning installed so it robbed space for batteries. If you find one without then you are ahead of the game. This was our 4th C&C and we live just 40 miles from where there were built. Good luck in your hunting.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Hello Ozz,

I love C & C's but given your plan for long distance cruising, you may be chasing a dream. If you have a GF or SO to cruise with you, a proper cruiser with large tankage, big battery bank and some comforts might be better advised.

No problem though.. it's your dosh. GL

[gunkylump]

There is a 1986 version of the CC44 at Ocean Yacht Sales here in Canada

OCEANYACHTSALES.COM

You might want to have a look, good inventory of pics, and pretty blue hull!

gunk

p.s. There is also a gorgeous Little Harbour on that site as well<grin>

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Pineridge.

[hamburking]

The extra speed of the C&C44 could be used to great advantage to make fast passages during good weather windows. The 44 is a big boat, and many people cruise on much smaller C&C's comfortably. I met an older couple in Antigua who had just crossed the atlantic in a C&C30...and they had no complaints. The 44 is well made, and looks fast, even just sitting at the dock. Also, due to age, you should be able to get one at a reasonable price. My personal preference is for the C&C41. I particularly like the layout with port and starboard pilot berths in the main salon. For kids, guests, or storage, these are great. I don't have a problem with a cruiser that looks great and goes fast. Most were equipped with yanmar engines, which are an excellent marine drive.

The Canadian dollar is very low right now, which helps you with the price. You might try to find one in Canada, and take it south to the Caribbean yourself...lots of boats make that migration each fall. Boats from the great lakes tend to be in really good condition since we have no salt here.

[ztsf]

I think you've got some real good advice there from actual owners, and if you're in touch with Rob Ball, you should have all you need to make a decision as to whether to come see one for sale.

Great Lakes boats are generally good buys for the stated reason - fresh water not salt. Boats sailed in the North East of the USA, probably a little nicer than those in South East due to the lower salinity content of the seawater and generally cooler temps. (of course a lot depends on how the boat was cared for).

My 37/40 was a tank - I'd have no qualms that the boat (especially the larger 44) will stand up to offshore conditions.

As to outfitting for cruising, I think you just have to get aboard one an see what room you have to work with. A watermaker can solve your tankage issues (for water at least), and you can always hang wind and solar generators off the stern or on an arch. Motoring range will be your only challenge.

Assuming that the 44 and 37/40 share similar hull designs (since they look so much alike above the waterline), I will agree with the others and say that they are sweet sailing boats - no question. I will caution that hull shape of the entry on my 37/40 was fairly flat, and that resulted in good speed, but a lot of heavy pounding when going to weather in a seaway. I think that's a normal trade-off in racing/cruising designs.

Picking one up on the Great Lakes, and knocking about for a bit there, and then heading down to the Caribbean sounds like a good plan. If you have any second thoughts about crossing oceans at that point, you could have it shipped to OZ from there.

Godspeed!

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by ztsf

Great Lakes boats are generally good buys for the stated reason - fresh water not salt. Boats sailed in the North East of the USA, probably a little nicer than those in South East due to the lower salinity content of the seawater and generally cooler temps. (of course a lot depends on how the boat was cared for).

We have long frozen winters up here on the great lakes...so our boats are only in the water 6 months of the year, and only actually used about 2 months per year. There are a great many boats that only go out a couple of weeks per season. Unfortunately, that great job that gives the means to purchase a "yacht", also often denies its use. To be more clear..."can't sail, must work".

And don't forget the low Canadian dollar...thats a 20% discount over USD, nothin to scoff at!

There was a C&C41 for sale here locally last summer (east end of Lake Ontario) for $25,000cdn...I kicked the tires, and now I'm kicking myself for not buying it. What a bargain.

I hope you let us know what you eventually purchase.

[hamburking]

OK...here's your boat:

Sailboat C&C custom 44 | sailboats | City of Toronto | Kijiji

You're welcome!

I'm sure they'll take any offer over $50, and likely quite a bit under too...a buyers market around here right now.

Lemme know if you want me to take some pictures and kick the tires for you, I'm on the same lake.

[Ozwizz54]

I know I've been quiet for a couple of days. I have been reading posts quickly but I've had one of my children (adult) visiting from the other end of the country and I've hosted family gatherings for two days. Busy, busy. He's off home in a couple of hours so I'll be able to concentrate more on this.

I've had two boats presented to me in the last couple of days which may well change my timing. At this point I'm still doing research but I may rething things as these two boats appear to be bargains where I could do a lot to personalise the boats with the change I'd get by not purchasing more expensive boats. It's food for thought.

As with anything in life, the boat is going to be a compromise. Some things will be perfect while others things I'm less inclined toward may be able to be altered to suit. Everyone's positive contributions and honest advice have been really constructive in assisting me to form some concrete thoughts.

And, just for the record... I won't complain about more either

[donradcliffe]

The tankage issue is best solved by a watermaker--we had 100 gallons with 2 people on board RTW and water was never a problem. An extra 100 gallons of water is 800 pounds to slow you down. Fuel tankage of at least 75 gallons would be nice, but you can always carry jerry jugs on the long passages.

Adding dinghy and davits to the back will offset the anchor and 250 ft of chain you add to the front. From a racing perspective, you are slowing the boat, but it will still perform much better than the 'bluewater' variety.

You will not know for sure whether any boat is the right boat by looking at pictures and drawings--you need to sit in it to really tell if it suits you.

What you will be giving up with the C&C is inside storage lockers, but you can easily convert a berth or two into storage.

What you will be gaining is a boat which is a joy to sail.

Its all up to you and your priorities.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Ozwizz54

As with anything in life, the boat is going to be a compromise. Some things will be perfect while others things I'm less inclined toward may be able to be altered to suit.

My experience is that you don't choose the boat, the boat chooses you.

And to add insult to injury, the boat that chose me most recently is called..."Compromise". I really wasn't interested when I first saw it, but the price kept me coming back. I've had it 3 years now, with no regrets. Well, none worth mentioning here.

[Ozwizz54]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The tankage issue is best solved by a watermaker--we had 100 gallons with 2 people on board RTW and water was never a problem. An extra 100 gallons of water is 800 pounds to slow you down. Fuel tankage of at least 75 gallons would be nice, but you can always carry jerry jugs on the long passages.

I've been coming to this conclusion. Must find out what a water maker will cost me. Can't imagine they'd been cheap but probably, to be realistic, no more than the cost of tearing our old tanks and making alterations to the boat to fit larger ones, or just fitting more which may require structural alterations anyway and cost space. And, as you've pointed out, compromise performance.

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Adding dinghy and davits to the back will offset the anchor and 250 ft of chain you add to the front. From a racing perspective, you are slowing the boat, but it will still perform much better than the 'bluewater' variety.

That's about what I thought too, Don. Haven't posed that question to Rob Ball yet but I will this morning. But I figured it was basically an exercise in applied mathematics.

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

You will not know for sure whether any boat is the right boat by looking at pictures and drawings--you need to sit in it to really tell if it suits you.

Agreed. Unfortunately it's not an option immediately available to me. But it will be soon which is why the research began a couple of months back.

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

What you will be giving up with the C&C is inside storage lockers, but you can easily convert a berth or two into storage.

Which is an easy enough fix.

Thanks Don and, yes, I am looking to a boat that will be both quick and a joy to sail. For me, the joy of getting there is part of the joy of cruising. Fighting losing battles against currents when you can beat them with speed or holing up somewhere safe when you can have a boat that will outrun or avoid the weather in other ways is the sort of compromises I'd rather avoid. There are aways times when discretion is required and a couple of days in a safe haven is clever. And I don't want a boat that is fast but worries me in any adverse conditions. I do want a boat I can go to sea in not one that creates doubts about it's ability to get to her destination in any way. Safe, seaworthy, sea-kindly, speedy.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Originally Posted by Ozwizz54

........ Safe, seaworthy, sea-kindly, speedy.

Hi Oz,

I think your statement above cannot be met in any one boat.... unless you are a gorilla and sail exclusively in company with other hairy apes... :big grin: One quick look at the racing boats should demonstrate my suggestion.. especially the sea kindly requirement. Additionally, unless you are a masochist, you will be sailing downwind and the importance of a good forward rig will become far more important.

Some other thoughts: your anchor and chain will weigh 137kg = 300 pounds. A proper set of davits to hold a sturdy dinghy (you don't want your dinghy to depart at the first pooping) will also weigh about the same. Add the provisioning and all the gear for long distance sailing and this adds another 1000 pounds. The sailboat which had brilliant performance when lightly laden now becomes a lame duck because the design never factored in your type of usage. A cruising hull design will be less affected by a weight increase than a racer.

Another point: water maker. Available from $5000 up to ... loads more. If you buy the cheapo, you will get 40 l/hr. If you buy a 150 l/hr, like I have, the price is $15000. (you probably do not have room to fit a high capacity unit). Now the kicker... you need electrics to run the thing and this comes either from a genset, solar, engine (forget the wind gennies, they don't work downwind).... and you have smallish fuel tanks. (Oh wait.. you thought of that and carry 10 X 20 liter jerry cans on your rails. Add another 350 lbs) Add a reasonable battery bank ... (5 batteries, 1 engine and 4 house). Your boat now floats far lower than designed. She is now a dog.

I like the C&C 44 but, in my opinion, you are facing more compromise than you've factored into your plan. Just saying .... GL.

[Ozwizz54]

Hi GL,

Can't fault the fact that you are giving me plenty to think about. There is some really good, well thought through points here which I'll take into account.

It's possible that I may not get all of my criteria met perfectly by one boat but I want to get as close as possible. Safety will never be compromised and seaworthiness is a big factor when crossing oceans as you'd be aware. Best not to play with seaworthiness too much or safety can be sacrificed. There's some room for adjustment with sea-kindiness and speed.

Conditions just outside my home port in Bass Strait can be wild and can change from acceptable to borderline disastrous in an instant. Further north up the east coast there's relative calm inside the Great Barrier Reef and in the 2000+ nautical miles between there's a base ground swell of about 2 metres (getting on for 7') on a calm day with wind swell on top of that. And all that before I only have water at the horizon. There are a lot of factors to take into account.