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Old 13-09-2017, 15:53   #1
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Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Hello there !

Just an hypothetical scenario of course

Let's say someone has a bit of money saved and wants to go sailing for as long as possible with it.
Let's say this someone is about end of his 20's and on the "very low maintenance" side of the population.
Let's say this someone is looking for a good 'value for money' boat which meets his needs :

- Can be single handed
- Blue water to some extent
- Can sleep at least 4 for a week to accommodate for occasional friends
- Has pressured water and a shower
- Roomier and stable boat valued other a sleek fast racer
- Low maintenance costs

Let's say the budget for the boat purchase + refit is 50k$.

Refit would include Solars, watermaker and Batteries if not included in the original boat.

Let's say the plan would include ocean crossings and autonomous island exploration (Hence the solar and watermaker).

My searches indicate that most of the boats in this price range are :

- Catalinas
- Hunters
- Pearsons
- Old Tartans
- C&Cs


Question is, what would you buy if you were in this person's shoes, and why ?
What minimal boat size usually meet these needs and you feel is appropriate for this scenario ?
Lastly, is 50k$ a realistic budget to find a boat which meets these needs ?

Cheers and fair winds !
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Old 13-09-2017, 16:09   #2
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Morane View Post
Hello there !

... a bit of money saved and wants to go sailing for as long as possible with it.
- Can be single handed
- Blue water to some extent
- Can sleep at least 4 for a week to accommodate for occasional friends
- Has pressured water and a shower
- Roomier and stable boat valued other a sleek fast racer
- Low maintenance costs

Let's say the budget for the boat purchase + refit is 50k$.

Refit would include Solars, watermaker and Batteries if not included in the original boat.

Let's say the plan would include ocean crossings and autonomous island exploration (Hence the solar and watermaker).

Lastly, is 50k$ a realistic budget to find a boat which meets these needs ?
We're managing just that with 35' Trident Challenger; no watermaker but that's out of choice (spend the money on wind vane steering instead) and all up, even at the current exchange rates, we're inside US$50k, if you're talking Aus$, then you could load her with beer and rum too inside budget.
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Old 13-09-2017, 16:10   #3
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Boat Type and Selection and Boat Features Topics

I have posted information and photos on hundreds of boats which I believe fit the needs of many CF members. There are several boat description threads. But, if you are looking for a LOW PRICED cruising boat, I recommend reading this thread as a good introduction to many boat brands and models that are usually on the market (in the USA market) for a relatively Low Asking Price.

Boats Less Than $30K - Noteworthy Recent Finds
Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Any experienced passage making, or offshore ("bluewater") sailor will tell you, few used boats are "ready to cruise" or to make a passage across an ocean. So, make sure you set aside enough money to do necessary repairs or upgrades to the boat. Older, lower priced boats may require many "fixes" even if they are advertised as "good condition."

Best Resources for Self-Survey of Boats: Tips, Tutorials, Troubleshooting Guides
Best Resources for Self Survey of Boats - Tips Tutorials Troubleshooting Guides
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Old 13-09-2017, 16:26   #4
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Basically, you want to live aboard. Maybe 25000 for the boat, 25000 for refit.
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Old 13-09-2017, 16:32   #5
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Read Steady's thread, start to finish. Come back and post your thoughts.

From your list though I would focus on the C&Cs. Heavier boat, better offshore, blah blah.

Also look for an old Cal 40. Stout, swift, easily refit, affordable if you find the right one.
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Old 13-09-2017, 16:33   #6
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

If you want to keep the total cost to $50k you need to spend less than $30k on the boat. Things like a good dinghy, new ground tackle, better windlass, better chart plotter, radar, HF radio, a new sail or two, good auto pilot, etc, etc.. You might need $80K
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Old 13-09-2017, 16:52   #7
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobnlesley View Post
We're managing just that with 35' Trident Challenger; no watermaker but that's out of choice (spend the money on wind vane steering instead) and all up, even at the current exchange rates, we're inside US$50k, if you're talking Aus$, then you could load her with beer and rum too inside budget.
Yes, budget is 50k$ US for the boat + refit approximately. Or 65k$ AuD.
Did you spent much on refitting the boat after purchase ?
Was it close to blue water ready already ?
How does a 35" feels during ocean crossings / offshore sailing ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Boat Type and Selection and Boat Features Topics

I have posted information and photos on hundreds of boats which I believe fit the needs of many CF members. There are several boat description threads. But, if you are looking for a LOW PRICED cruising boat, I recommend reading this thread as a good introduction to many boat brands and models that are usually on the market (in the USA market) for a relatively Low Asking Price.

Boats Less Than $30K - Noteworthy Recent Finds
Boats Less Than $30K Recent Noteworthy Finds

Any experienced passage making, or offshore ("bluewater") sailor will tell you, few used boats are "ready to cruise" or to make a passage across an ocean. So, make sure you set aside enough money to do necessary repairs or upgrades to the boat. Older, lower priced boats may require many "fixes" even if they are advertised as "good condition."

Best Resources for Self-Survey of Boats: Tips, Tutorials, Troubleshooting Guides
Best Resources for Self Survey of Boats - Tips Tutorials Troubleshooting Guides
I already read quite a lot of it and it is, indeed, really helpful.
For example, a month ago it linked to that boat :

Westerly 33 Ketch, have to sell

Over-equipped 30+ sized boat, blue water capable with a recent, extensive refit which ended up sold for 16500$ on Ebay.

Needless to say this is exactly the kind of deal I will be looking at getting. (And I guess we all are)
Sadly the timing was off about 6 months.

But anyway, thanks a lot for keeping this thread alive, useful Infos for thousands of people out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Read Steady's thread, start to finish. Come back and post your thoughts.

From your list though I would focus on the C&Cs. Heavier boat, better offshore, blah blah.

Also look for an old Cal 40. Stout, swift, easily refit, affordable if you find the right one.
Cheers for the insight !
I'll have a closer look to C&Cs and Cal 40's.
I follow steady hand's thread as closely as anybody with my dream and my budget should

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
If you want to keep the total cost to $50k you need to spend less than $30k on the boat. Things like a good dinghy, new ground tackle, better windlass, better chart plotter, radar, HF radio, a new sail or two, good auto pilot, etc, etc.. You might need $80K
I am still hopeful I will find a partially or even fully refitted boat.
I am patient and able to move worldwide to get the boat, starting April 2018.
Also I am willing to wait a year or two as well as I get more money the longer I stay in my current situation.
That should hopefully put me in a good position to reach these evasive good deals.
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Old 13-09-2017, 17:00   #8
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

I purchased my Mariner 40 for $20k, put about $30k into it including full Raymarine navigation, radar and sonar system, picked up a nice used SSB, weatherfax, life raft, And all other safety equipment and sailed across the Pacific.

I calculated cruising costs were about $1 per mile. And things will break, so make sure you have saved for repair costs while underway.
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Old 13-09-2017, 17:01   #9
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Cal 34, Ranger 33, Columbia 34, 34.2, Columbia 43, . . .
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Old 13-09-2017, 17:22   #10
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isla Aid View Post
I purchased my Mariner 40 for $20k, put about $30k into it including full Raymarine navigation, radar and sonar system, picked up a nice used SSB, weatherfax, life raft, And all other safety equipment and sailed across the Pacific.

I calculated cruising costs were about $1 per mile. And things will break, so make sure you have saved for repair costs while underway.
No worries, 50k$ is boat budget only. I have another 80-120k$ ready for the sailing part depending on how long it takes me to find the boat.

Is it hard to single handle a 40' ?
Knowing that since I want to keep it simple and low maintenance, I will most likely not have these expensive gadgets that make single handling a lot easier. (Bow thrusters and such)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Cal 34, Ranger 33, Columbia 34, 34.2, Columbia 43, . . .
Cheers !
It Helps me a lot to have specific boat models to look at.
Many thanks.
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Old 13-09-2017, 17:31   #11
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Morane View Post
No worries, 50k$ is boat budget only. I have another 80-120k$ ready for the sailing part depending on how long it takes me to find the boat.

Is it hard to single handle a 40' ?
Knowing that since I want to keep it simple and low maintenance, I will most likely not have these expensive gadgets that make single handling a lot easier. (Bow thrusters and such)



Cheers !
It Helps me a lot to have specific boat models to look at.
Many thanks.
Autopilot is a must for any singlehand sailig, other than that, i have my jib sheet winches by the helm but all hank on jibs. Roller furling jib/ genoa would make it much more easier, but when mine tore out, it was much easier to swap out with my backup. All depends on your personal preference.

The Mariner 40 can take a beating and keep going, but not going anywhere fast.
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Old 13-09-2017, 17:36   #12
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Are you willing to hunt down the boat far and wide, or are you limited to options nearby? That might determine a lot. Personally, my take after limiting my own search only to "ultra bluewater", and now having a bit more experience, is that most boats can get you there. What's more important is knowing the boat, having good ground tackle, and knowing how to maintain the systems onboard. Whatever you get, try your best to personally vouch for every inch of her and you'll be in good shape. Large or small, it's more a function of comfort rather than safety.

I was in my mid 20s when I moved aboard and wish I had some of your criteria in mind. I went with small and quality over large and "value-minded" and while I don't have any regrets, 7 years in a larger boat does seem to be in the cards at some point. But that said, it's all so personal that it's really a moot point to say anything out loud about it. Bottom line is you can make any reasonable choice work just fine, and you'll not regret a minute of it.

Re: autonomy beyond sound rig/hull/sails/engine, the watermaker has to be at the top of the list for me personally. Also way over-the-top ground tackle. And reliable cleanable watertanks, solar, good AP and windvane, good fishing gear.

Anyway, musings from a guy who was in pretty much the same position you are now. Have fun in the search, find something you can put your heart and money into, and go do it. Dont spend too much time in a boatyard getting ready to go. Easy to get carried away and lose sight of the real objective. The boat's a constant work in progress and the lifestyle affords you arguably the last real bastion of freedom in the world, so don't sweat the small stuff.
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Old 13-09-2017, 18:45   #13
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

look at a cape horn wind vane..it will help cut down on needed solar


I can single handle my 40 easier than I thought, I do have an auto pilot.
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Old 13-09-2017, 18:52   #14
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Morane View Post
No worries, 50k$ is boat budget only. I have another 80-120k$ ready for the sailing part depending on how long it takes me to find the boat.

Is it hard to single handle a 40' ?
Knowing that since I want to keep it simple and low maintenance, I will most likely not have these expensive gadgets that make single handling a lot easier. (Bow thrusters and such)



Cheers !
It Helps me a lot to have specific boat models to look at.
Many thanks.

The issue with size and single-handing is not what you can handle most of the time but what can you handle in the worst conditions.

Lin&Larry Pardey wrote about the Xmas 1982 debacle in Cabo San Lucas where 29 of the 40 or so cruising boats anchored there were driven ashore in a gale. The comment many observers made at the time and the Pardey's agreed with was that the 37' was about the largest boat a couple could handle in those conditions. I don't see that technology has really changed the situation. Cruising you can expect to spend 2/3-9/10 of your time anchored. I suspect that 37' is probably also the limit for most folks in the works conditions while under way.

If you get a moderate amount of luck, you will never experience such conditions.

I had planned to sail across to NewZealnd with my family and the largest boat I was comfortable with was a Cal40. Alone or as a couple I would take a Cal34 or Cal36.

I don't see putting a bow thruster on a boat when you have a $50k budget. They are $1k for a low end unit, plus installation, plus upgraded wiring, plus you are putting extra holes in the hull that could later fail, plus the holes at the bow will cost you in speed. Finally, unless you intend to use a marina most of the time there won't be much need for it. And if you are really cruising most of the time you will learn the maneuver the boat very well without it.

Keep in mind all the gadgets that you put on the boat have to be maintained. In addition to being a time suck in port when you'd rather be seeing the local sights, they are also a money suck when you have to pay DHL shipping and customs on any repair parts you didn't bring with you.

Check out SailboatData.com which is in my signature below.
Look at boats who's first production was from 1956 thru 1974 or so.
Range,
Cal
Columbia
Bristol
Alberg
Pearson
Alden
Alllied
C&C
Cascade
Erickson
Islander
Morgan
Newport
O'Day
Tartan
WestSail 32
Yankee
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Old 13-09-2017, 19:06   #15
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Re: Scenario : Bluewater Monohull 50k$ budget

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isla Aid View Post
Autopilot is a must for any singlehand sailig, other than that, i have my jib sheet winches by the helm but all hank on jibs. Roller furling jib/ genoa would make it much more easier, but when mine tore out, it was much easier to swap out with my backup. All depends on your personal preference.

The Mariner 40 can take a beating and keep going, but not going anywhere fast.
I would say that 2 oversized autopilots and upgraded electrical system or a windvane and a regular autopilot at a must for any short-handed cruising.

If you are offshore using the autopilot 24/7 for weeks at a time it needs to be oversized to last. And when it breaks down in the middle of no-where you need an immediate replacement or you will be hand-steering until you reach someplace where it can be repaired or sent for repairs.

A windvane is much more durable than electronics on a boat, and it requires no power supply. In very light winds or while motoring the regular (or even undersized) autopilot can be hooked to the vane-gear in place of the wind blade and it will steer the boat using a lot less power and wear&tear than hooking it directly to the tiller/wheel. If the vane-gear packs it in you can still use the autopilot directly on the tiller/wheel but you'd better be heading towards repair at that point.

Regardless of whether you intend to use any sheet-to-tiller self-steering system buy "Self-steering without a windvane" by Lee Woas and keep it on the boat. If all the other steering aids fail you can fall back on the ideas in that book.

I'm kinda with IslaAid on hanked on sails. The only way I would be happy with a roller furling/reefing headsail is if I had a removable inner forestay to set storm sails on.
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