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Fishman_Tx · 21-07-2009, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailcharleston

Just ran across an add on craigslist in the charleston sc area for a free 36 pearson. Unfortunately it is on the bottom of a creek here. Apparently it broke free of its mooring and ended up on its side in a storm at low tide. As the tide came in, it filled with water. Don't know much more about it though I suspect I know the boat and if it is the one I am thinking of, I have been aboard it and it was ok. Have no idea how hard it would be to free and raise. I do know the creek that it is in and can tell you that the depth at low tide in that creek will be less than 12 feet probably more like 8 feet.

Oh Sh*t !! That ain't s/v DistantStar is it??

If it is, then she's probably full of mud now and will need to be dredged out. how long she been under now, a year?

Fishman_Tx · 21-07-2009, 12:50

My bad....under since around Feb 2009

S/V Distant Star

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/members/svdistantstar.html

Here's what happened....
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/51684-well-my-day-really-sucked.html

Rockin_Rick · 21-07-2009, 14:55

Feral,

Have you ever looked at an Irwin?
Ted Irwin built boats in the 70s and 80s like a Brick S house. You know the old way when in doubt add more fiberglass. The hulls are solid hand laid up glass (no cores) and the usual deck setup was glass over marine plywood. I drilled a new access hole for a waste pump out on my 1977 Center Cockpit and almost bottomed out the hole saw before it popped through. I have the 1 1/2" thick plug at home to remind me how strongly she is built. They get bad press from the brokers and surveyors because their fit and finish inside and behind the triming you may see some roving that did not get covered by another layer of mat. Big Deal! I like the fact that there is no core in the hull, the keel is part of the mold and the skeg hung rudder is well protected. Mine has high bullworks so you can't slip of the deck when she is pitching all around. Mose of the 37s out there will be selling for 35 to 55K. I found a 38 on Yachtword for 16,200.
1970 Irwin Aft Cockpit Classic Sloop Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Why raise the dead when you can scrape and paint you way to about 25K more value whit this one.

Just a thought.

Rick
S/V Footprints
Long Beach, CA

sailcharleston · 21-07-2009, 18:25

Hey got your PM. Replying back in a minute. For the record, that creek is salt water. The closest DIY marina is Dolphin Cove Marina on the Ashley river. Not sure yhow hard it is to get there on a tow. It isn't far. A few miles then through the elliot cut (which I would think is the toughest part as the current can rip through there) Past a couple draw brideges and you are there. Wave at the Citadel cadets on your right as you head up the Ashley River.

Depending on your timeframe I may be able to assist you.

Feral Cement · 22-07-2009, 18:33

OK, everyone, this is a go, but I'm gonna need some help. If we're to raise this boat, I think the best way is to try and float the low side as the tide rises while we pump out what's collected in the hull. If we get her up and out this way, we're way ahead of the game. Low tide is just past midnight, high at daybreak (no deal), low at lunch, high at sunset. Range seems to be about 6 feet, so if we can keep water from running BACK into her, we might be about to tip her up enough to float in 6 feet of water.

Here's a list of things I can use:

1) A boat, preferably 2 or 3. We may need to inflate tubes, bags, etc. on the fly, so I need to be able to carry items 2, 3 and 4. A skiff would be ideal. A power boat to help extract her from the shore might be needed.

2) A compressor - pressure is not the key, but volume and low weight are essential.

3) A generator, to power the compressor.

4) A pump. A very high volume pump, gas or electric.

5) Floatation bags, and/or truck and tractor inner tubes, anything that can be tied onto the boat and inflated to give lift.

6) A pressure washer (by the time we get to this point, victory is ours!)

7) A place to wash her down and tie off for the night. I don't know how far we'll get or how fast we'll be moving.

If you have or have use of any of these items, I'd like to hear from you. I'm going to need smart, safety conscious people to help with this. A buddy of mine who is a diver is coming down to attach things around or under the boat. The current owner has some 55 gallon drums, though these are sometimes hard to strap securely.

I am open to any ideas that might lead to easier, earlier success. Safety is a must, and I am especially open to issues I may not have considered. If we have to float it in deep water, I may need some old waterbed mattresses unless someone has a few float pillows. We might be able to spread a heavy sheet of plastic in the main cabin and fill it with air, until the air reaches the bottom edge, but I figure a bubble that is 10' x 8' x 3' is 240 c.f X 62 lb/c.f. = 14800 lb of lift!

What's the word? Who's in? Early shift, late shift? All day? Equipment?

You will remember this for the rest of your life, and you can rest assured, beer will be spilled.

Thanks,

John

Sailndive345 · 22-07-2009, 19:03

I have seen inflated waterbed mattresses used to raise/salvage sunken boats more than once on Indian River (Melbourne, FL) area. You may want to investigate...

Wish I were closer to your area - sounds like an interesting challenge!..

Good luck!

Sailndive

captmick39 · 22-07-2009, 22:05

John,
I'm glad You're "Going For It"
Regarding the homework already done...good job;
On to your "list";
Item#1-Consider putting a classified in the local paper, check out places to advertise for free like Craigslist locally, call the marinas (&Especially the local Dry Dock Marina/Boat Yards and find out if they have any "hangers around"/day laborers who'd jump at a deal like "Lunch, $25. & beer when she FLOATS....trust me, You'll need to buy a keg (& that's a SMALL PRICE TO PAY!) As for the boats, see the end of this posting.....
Item#2-TAYLOR, or another viable Rental Company only charges about $25-$40. A DAY (as in 24 hrs) for a GAS Powered Generator, usually w/50' of hose
Item#3-Not a bad idea (especially for flood lights, however no longer needed for the compressor w/a gas driven model); again rentable;
Item#4-Again Rentable, and You're going to need a SERIOUS "PickUp Strainer". That boat is going to be full of stuff You wouldn't flush down Your TOILET! (Promise).
Item#5-WaterBed Mattresses are FAR & AWAY Better unless You're contracting a PRO w/real flotation bags purpose built for this task. WB Mattresses are puncture resistent and work gr8 in this application...3-4 King Sized would More than do the trick; 1in the VBerth, 2 in the Salon.....job done.
Item#6-Don't even Sweat It, the yard where it's hauled will have a nasty little corner, off all by itself just for Your "Stinky Find", and either rental option, or 1 on site can be used/borrowed, paying them by the hr. (last option most expensive, avoid if possible...this bad boy's gonna take DAYS to clean)
Item#7-IF the execution is proper, hauling to a drydock yard will be easy. It just gets towed right in to the slings for the travel lift. They hoist up & tote to Your special little corner, Set Keel on blocks and chain up the stands(keep 'em on the lines of the BULKHEADS...critically important. Shop around & make arrangements w/the Yard in Advance...sounds like everybody in the area has been looking at this derilect for some 4 months now. They'll all be glad to see it floating again, long enough to be delivered to stands (& thereafter a "Trailer", or not?)

Here's a really practical suggestion from a master salvor who made a fortune in Miami after Andrew, Charleston after Hugo, going on isn't important here...CALL SEA TOW & TOW BOAT US locally for quotes. You MIGHT JUST BE SHOCKED AS HECK as to what they give You for a Figure(?!) I'd guess $250. an hr. & probably 4 hrs tops.
You're going to spend that much trying the "do-it-yourself" method, and ZERO guarantee of success. The Pro's don't Play, they show up, it comes up, and there's Your "boats to assist", and Boat to TOW it to the yard for restoration/preparation for transportation.

A Planned & Scheduled in advance "project" in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK (they do 90% of their business between fri.pm&sun.pm) probably gets You a Bigger discount. BOATUS Member? Bigger discount. For the life of me, can't figure out why the former owner was so CHEAP as to not pursue this avenue himself. Could of re-floated the day he discovered for probably < $1500. Leaving the "Heavy Lifting" to the pros (& ideally a crane barge would be the ticket, just a $5k minimum venture) may just be the smartest (AND EASIEST) hole shot for getting the task at hand DONE.
If You want to waste days, clothes, and wrestle w/oysters & barnies in the SC Muck, have fun.

I'd bring my plastic, cash & experience; starting before departing here w/everything arranged in advance via that tool hanging on the wall in Your kitchen....THE PHONE! I'd guarantee for <$3k, You don't even need to get Your hands dirty (well, until she's on stands, then God Help You...a really important tip here,,,,follow the wires & You;ll find the sending units...or more easily You can locate 'em from the outsides and punch 'em IN w/a hefty Ball Pien Hammer. You gotta have HOLES in that hull once on the hard so the MUD & MUCK (&water from that pressure washer)has some place to GO. Additional strains on the hull at this point GUARANTEE bulkhead Tabbing separation from the hull. Shy a crane barge, I'll Guarantee (after 4 mos in Davey Jones Locker) Those bulkheads are toast, along w/serious delamination of their tabbing....& then again I might just be wrong. You CAN'T Know until it's CLEAN Inside and DRIED OUT. <--that little ditty will take WEEKS under shelter after cleaning to accomplish.

Good Luck, God's Speed.
Be Careful, and seriously...don't shun the pro's...they Can be expensive;
they can Also Be PRICELESS.

For probably < $5k You can have this fine Pearson Specimen in Your Back Yard to bring back from the brink of total loss to total gem. The Pics in Feb. had my heart throbbing. Seeing the date & reading the tale had me weeping.

She can be saved, it won't be easy, however it's Exactly what You were looking for. Get that ENGINE and all the goodies he has remaining IMMEDIATELY UPON ARRIVAL...he'll have 2nd thoughts after she's on stands...they ALWAYS do. Get that title/document signed over in advance of lifting a finger as well...
from a guy more than once burned previously;

-Mick

Feral Cement · 23-07-2009, 06:21

Mick, everyone --

Thanks for the ideas and pointers. With some minor variations, I'm tracking your thoughts down the line. I'd rather do this myself since the REAL expenses start when she floats.

I repeat my call for a couple of Jon boats (or whatever), generators and compressors, water bed mattresses and tie-on flotation devices, and a bunch of willing, able guys who are into doing things that can and should be done. If you can't make it, call or post that guy from work or your neighbor or somebody who knows somebody. I need a 1 day marine salvage outfit this Saturday in Charleston, SC.

You will NEVER forget the day you helped raise Distant Star and lived to tell about it.

Thanks,

John

captmick39 · 23-07-2009, 07:31

Just let me know if You don't prevail by Sunday night sunset, fair enough?
Otherwise...BEST of LUCK, &
don't do anything STUPID!
(best advice I every give)
-Mick

Feral Cement · 23-07-2009, 08:13

Mick --

She's coming up, fo sho. If I fail, you're up.

Some other ideas:

1) How much pressure will a good leaf blower create? Lots of volume, lots of velocity, but can I inflate a garbage bag 4 feet under water?

2) How much volume does a portable compressor kick out? Sure, it'll run a nail gun and inflate your tires, but I need ~ 1000 gallons of air. If I get a gallon a minute, that's 17 hours continuous, 2 per minute 8.5 hours.

Still looking for help and equipment this Saturday. Post if you have an old water bed mattress or a high volume pump or any other stuff that might help us succeed.

And I'll try not to do anything stupid.

John

captmick39 · 23-07-2009, 09:47

Preparation: (You know the "P" Theorm, right? ProperPriorPlanningPreventsPissPoorPerformance)

1-Get(buy?)5 4'x8' sheets of plywood, cut in half to 4'x4' for ease of handling/portability....put them in the bed of the TRAILER You're going to need for all the Stuff to execute this ordeal, AND all the "goodies" that You aren't prepared to discard and replace from scratch fm. vessel interior. Also add 2-3 additional sheets of plywood cut lengthwise 2'x8' to the collection...more on these later, along w/4-5 cans of house insulating HIGH EXPANSION FOAM (<keep these out of the sun, they become a pain to work w/if highter than 90deg.F when used). Park Trailer w/supplies some place High/Dry and OUT OF THE WAY for the balance of the day (You're going to need access to those trailer hitches later, when time is of the essence, trust me).
2-Shovels...lots of them flat, spade, & w/GOOD Quality handles.
3-(IF THIS IS LEGAL THERE?) I'd arrive at high tide & examine here You can stage everything equipment wise (as the water WILL come back up that high again...soon, usually about 12 hrs away) & as the water retreats just as soon as You can get close enough to where it matters begin digging a big fat HOLE from the shore side to the KEEL. It's a tedious process when dealing w/"muck" but w/multiple operators You will make progress. dig down to and UNDER the keel LAST. I'd say a 3.5' depth should work, judging by the pics, about 12' long & 4' wide...deepest for the full length Under the keel. Utmost care should be excercised while working IN THE HOLE, and UNDER the keel. (this vessel HAS to get Vertical to float, or 1 heluva lot closer than as she lies in the pic. Remove EVERYTHING from the interior that can (for they WILL) puncture Your floatation bags; Salon Table & drawers/doors come to mind if remaining, some may be buried in the interior "muck". Don't get "obsessed" w/the "finds"...keep moving, the clock is ticking.

4-While that most tedious event (digging the hole...don't worry about water In IT) is taking place, remove h2o from the interior then as much of the mud & much as can be, right over the side (opposite the workers is most recommended side unless adding a new set of teeth to the costs has been factored). Get EVERY BIT that can possibly be removed of that mud/muck OUT of the boat while time permits. SHORT Handled shovels work best for this along with Heavy Duty BUCKETS...including "flat backed" buckets from a feed store. The Mud is going to be Your enemy INSIDE the boat causing heeling the WRONG WAY to accomplish goal of "going vertical".

5-Have somebody young & skinny (i'm 1 of the 2 now) shimmy up the mast as far as they can possbily get, preferrably to the TOP, and secure at least 1 (Ideally 2) lines via clove hitch & finished w/double half hitches(Note:BE SURE that these are secured UNDERNEATH where the stays attach to the 3/4 points on the mast. Heavy Duty 1/2" minimum (3 strand anchor line should do fine, the "stretch factor" Is a GOOD thing in this application) and stake them in the ground above the high water mark

6-Install the flotation bags and inflate them LONG before the tide begins returning. Inspect ALL remaining opening ports/hatches/Cockpit combings and You'll(by now w/o question)be able to SEE where the H20 has been flowing 2andFro fm. within to without.

7-Go get those 2'x8' previously cut sheets of ply & the spray foam. Secure (make watertight) EVERY opening available to water intrusion. Spray the foam around the entire opening after having cut a "cover plate" of the ply, & SCREW to the opening sealing the foam and ply together (it's easy to fix the screw holes later...trust me some more here)

8-Once You've gotten the h2o mud/muck out of the interior & cockpit (in a boat this size a 3 person venture tops...1 in cockpit, 1 in v-berth, 1 in salon), PLUG the cockpit scuppers to the Water Side (or both sides) of the cockpit...and make sure the seacocks are all closed to head & interior sinks/basins. Where 90% of Your water intrusion has been occuring is via the cockpit, sooo...to the waterside and around the back, spray foam and attach plywood over the OUTSIDE of the cockpit combings to keep the rising water OUT of the Cockpit & "wrap" the plywood around aft to at LEAST amidships, preferrably ALL the way across the back combings.

9-Cover w/foam & ply ALL compartment hatches to the waterside & lazarette where the h2o has been intruding.

10-Get that pump ON a boat on the water side of the vessel as the tide comes up, have it Running, and As tide returns have the pickup as low in the boat as You can keep it.

11-run lines from the 4 corner cleats and secure to lifelines-railings.

12-sit down & rest as the tide rises. when the water hits the toe rails, have folks on the bow & stern lines set up safe places to hold same.

13-Hook up those 2 long lines secured to the top of the stick to the Trailer Hitches to stout 4wd trucks

14-When the rising creek water hits the bottom edge of the cockpit combings, she ought to be trying to float by then, down side rising & rocking w/the waves. Fire up the trucks & have them pull as close to perfectly perpendicular to the line for to aft of the hull (and in to the previously DUG HOLE) as possible. The higher the water gets, the easier the task becomes, however the boat on the opposite side w/pump ready to shift in to gear at the first sight of further intrusion is in the right place as You're going to wind up moving this vessel CLOSER to shore in the end, but vertical and floating. Dragging her THRU the water to deeper water truly is the EASIEST Part of this venture. I guarantee when those truck fire up and GENTLY in 4wd EASE the Lines tight, she's going vertical and going to fall right in that hole, now bobbing like a cork. Folks on the fore & aft cleat lines now become critical.
15-slacken lines fm. trucks & disconnect...return to vessel (they may be needed to supply to the "pump boat" to pull perpendicular to hull in opposite direction in the process of dragging out of the hole it's sitting in. The cleat lines on the opposing side also now come in handy for that task as well. A BIG boat (21-22' minimum w/a 150hp parked on her stern is needed next.
16-Tie up the free bow line to the big boat w/major hp and drag it out of the mud. IF severe resistence is met, have the pump boat grab 1 of those masthead attached lines & head out in to the creek...a combination of heeling the vessel to the side it naturally wants to "lean to" now, as well as the pulling powerboat (You reduce draft/depth of keel & resistance of portion in mud) yanks 'em out every time. It doesn't matter whether she drags sideways (SLOWLY) or forward, she's floating AND Free. IF (worst case scenario) she's still stuck hard while the tide's still rising or can't be freed from the "hole" thru the muck in a mostly fwd direction, have the motor vessels switch positions (or pump boat simply get out of the way), and put the behemoth on the mast head line(s) and drag slowly to the deep water heeled over until in depth to float. Do this last/worst case only as the strain on those already previously submerged chainplates is severe...they're secured to those soaked bulkheads...need I say more?
Have Big boat drag out until she's obviously clear of the shallows ("too far" is usally "just right"), get the pump boat back in position aside & check again for h20 inside...none? good...next stop is the travellift. Closest is not relevant...least expensive AND available at that time IS. Tying her up to their docks will not be appreciated unless You have pump & 24 hr attendance until travel lift operator arrives following morning.

If You're going to be transporting home/close to home...travel lift raises, sets on stands, You wash out & get to the mast step/compression post and remove all bolts securing same, loosen the rig to 5 turns remaining on all turnbuckles, get a crane to step the mast, (Once crane has secured mast You simply spin off burnbuckles & bungee all shrouds/stays to the mast & away they lift...don't sweat the electical connections, they'll snap free easily (including the ground wire now) & You're going to be replacing ALL Wiring anyway) and when transporter arrives, have 'em load both on trailer. Then hit the road.

You're going to need cranes/travel lifts at both ends available, a lot of planning, a LOT OF HELP and just a little "luck" (<although cash usually takes care of that 1).

Upside is that when completed(depending on how well equipped) You have Yourself a $30k-$45k valued(per a survey) vessel. You'll have < $10k in the entire venture, and 2heluva tale to tell. I'd rename her "Phoenix", or maybe even "back from the brink".

John, if it's any consolation (I know it won't be Sunday Night, when parts You didn't know existed ACHE) it literally IS 90% preparation, 10% execution. If all goes well (& You can muster a "crew" of 10) You'll "git 'er done" in 1 day. There's nothing more rewarding than one man's trash becoming another man's treasure. I've done it too many times to count (& have thousands of photos of the ventures). The point of this posting was to prepare You for exactly HOW this can be done, the way You want to try & do it. So get busy, You've got quite a list to fulfill before getting on the road...

Good Luck, God's Speed, and again (as it can never be said too often)
Don't Let ANYBODY
DO
ANYTHING
STUPID!

-Mick

SVDistantStar · 23-07-2009, 09:59

I don't even know what to say. Im just happy to see the boat coming up and going to someone that will fix it up.

captmick39 · 23-07-2009, 10:20

PPS,
I'd jump at the chance to help (including the 6.5 hr drive each way) & bring A TON of gear w/me (have trailer, pumps, generators, floods, the works right here) if the vessel below wasn't calling my name.

She's ready to splash, had a wife w/health problems preventing doing so up until most recently, needs 1 day of work (mostly moving gear topsides & re-installing), then trip back here to collect crew (as it's a 3-4 day sail back to here from there) to go back & head this way next wk (Lord WIlling & the weather holds)...I'm at the finished end w/my "keeper" of Your beginning process. Just secured a dock in trade for lawn maint. (for nxt 5 yrs for Free, aside mowing) inc. H20 & Power...no brainer deal.

I've waited a long time (delayed gratifaction king) to get to this point; if even the docked secured over in P-Cola for the 2 day turn around drive back here w/18 stands in a pathfinder & me (won't that be fun...it's 7.5hrs each way), collection of crew & return in 1 way rental car weren't all already pre-arranged at this point (toldja, PPPPPP IS important), I'd be packing for Your "assignment" instead of typing...already have more projects than I need, or probably will accomplish in this lifetime; however 1 more would guarantee I'll Never DIE(!) I have a place, the energy, time, skills & money available to "git er done" if You don't. I'm NOT particularlly crazy about being "on deck". I'd rather You PREVAIL in this venture than "not so much"...remember, several cases of water, Pizza Hut, & a Keg go a LONG way to success. Keep the "employees" satisfied, well hydrated, and not "too" overworked & You'll have no mutiny....& a floating S/V before You know it. (Me, I'd just call sea tow & have em pump er out, drag er out, to the marina & arrange w/a buddy transport back down here, literally to the back yard...they only "stink" for about a week. Yes, it'd cost me a lot more, be far less time & labor intensive, & about equal guarantee of success if You follow the aforementioned post's steps. I'd consider it a deal just based on the fact that the rig is complete, the hull is sound and the powerplant WAS OUT...again, get everything he has to offer, as well as PAPERWORK completed BEFORE YOU START. Can't stress that 1 enough. He WILL have "2nd thoughts" once she's on the hard if he see's her....they ALWAYS DO (EVERY TIME). Don't get burned.
Keep us all in the loop please, I'll be checking 4 Your updates;
-Mick

SVDistantStar · 23-07-2009, 10:29

Im not having any second thoughts on the boat at all. Loosing my home of the last 3 years got to me enough that I'm done with boats. I can't afford to fix it up, or do anything with it right now anyway, hence the reason I'm giving it away.