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View Poll Results: what do you think is better overall for a long term cruiser?
sailing performance over living space 24 30.77%
living space over sailing performance 54 69.23%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 28-11-2009, 17:56   #16
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I think answers shoudl be divided into those that have cruised full time for a year of more and those who havent.

I came from a racing background but the other day the wind was just edging off the nose to 45 degreesish and I was too lazy to raise the mainsail. Just kept motoring.
Before we came cruising that would never have happened.

The white floppy things are important but the amenities of life aboard are vastly more important imho
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Old 28-11-2009, 18:23   #17
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Yeah, John, a jumbo-sized can of worms! lol

I want to be comfortable, on a boat that handles all conditions well. Therefore, I'd go with a boat of relatively narrow beam, with as much length as I could afford & still stay in the budget I had. Something with a decent pilothouse & quarter/pipe berths abaft the max. beam.

My wife just said that she's willing to leave me for any guy with a Nordhavn!

So, on second thought, a...Morgan? ("No") Lancer? ("Yes?") O.k., that's what we want; a 42' Lancer. Yup, no Albergs or Spencers for me!
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P.S.: Any single guys out there with a Nordhavn? Just thinking...
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Old 28-11-2009, 18:30   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I think answers shoudl be divided into those that have cruised full time for a year of more and those who havent.

I came from a racing background but the other day the wind was just edging off the nose to 45 degreesish and I was too lazy to raise the mainsail. Just kept motoring.
Before we came cruising that would never have happened.

The white floppy things are important but the amenities of life aboard are vastly more important imho

Ditto. The captain & crew need to be comfortable, so that the journey is harmonious. Most boats will get you where you want to go. Unless, of course, one views their boat as a specific mode of transportation, alone. (I've never met anyone who has cruised or lived aboard for any period of time who supported the latter view.)
Mike
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Old 28-11-2009, 18:44   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangkaboat View Post
Yeah, John, a jumbo-sized can of worms! lol

I want to be comfortable, on a boat that handles all conditions well. Therefore, I'd go with a boat of relatively narrow beam, with as much length as I could afford & still stay in the budget I had. Something with a decent pilothouse & quarter/pipe berths abaft the max. beam.

My wife just said that she's willing to leave me for any guy with a Nordhavn!

So, on second thought, a...Morgan? ("No") Lancer? ("Yes?") O.k., that's what we want; a 42' Lancer. Yup, no Albergs or Spencers for me!
Mike

P.S.: Any single guys out there with a Nordhavn? Just thinking...

I was just told to go buy one.....send picture of wife......

Just Kidding!!.
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Old 28-11-2009, 18:47   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangkaboat View Post
I'd go with a boat of relatively narrow beam, Something with a decent pilothouse & quarter/pipe berths abaft the max. beam.

My wife just said that she's willing to leave me for any guy with a Nordhavn!

P.S.: Any single guys out there with a Nordhavn? Just thinking...

Yes, there is a lovely guy hereabouts with a Nordhavn. He cruised across the pacific last year, Australia through Indonesia, Malaysia and now is either here, somwehere or Thailand. Actually he is areally nice guy, single.... so I keep Nicolle a loooooooong way away from him
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Old 28-11-2009, 19:58   #21
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Not to add to the problem of what to chose..................

And I am not a cruiser, just a boat owner at the present time..............

But what about a...............ready................here we go.....................





A catamaran.
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Old 28-11-2009, 20:45   #22
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I think the answer comes down to the same old boat word: Compromise..........to get an acceptable level of both.

And everybody will define acceptable differently. And some will look to as small as you can get away with for both - whilst others will look to as big as possible.
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Old 28-11-2009, 23:44   #23
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Given a limited budget and wanting a LONG TERM cruiser rather than say long haul passage maker, I would take the space rather than the performance; however if I was considering a short term cruiser or a long haul passage maker, I would take performance.

Most long term cruisers (and there are exceptions of course) don't sail that much and spend most of their time just living on the boat so (for me), space becomes the issue.
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Old 29-11-2009, 05:30   #24
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This was of course at it's heart was a question of which direction most would chose in making the compromise in boat selection. Interesting that in lots of threads in the forum sailing performance gets discussed, but according to the poll most perfer the living space comfort factor more.
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Old 29-11-2009, 07:48   #25
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If you are going to do long passages. Mostly that will be with the tradewinds, and if you have the wind behind the beam. Then a cat can give you both room, and performance. Not all cats, but a performance, cruiser will give you both.

If you want to use ARC as an example. That's okay too, but the thing with the cat is a flatter platform, and the space. Even if they are not running away from the rest of the fleet. As I posted Ovive's you tube video. It's not hard to understand that flat is comfortable even when closing in on 20 knots of speed.

Before anyone gets all jumpy. I typed in tradewind sailing with wind behind the beam........i2f
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Old 29-11-2009, 08:09   #26
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What does sailing "performance" mean in this instance ? Speed?

Cruising boats get loaded with all kinds of gear: dingys, motors, food, spare parts, anchors, storm sails, fuel, water, etc etc.

I would answer the question in this way. If I wanted to have all the comforts of home, I'd stay home. I like being outdoors, and so other than sleeping, cooking and showering, trip planning, I spend all my time on deck. Two people can live quite comfortably on my 34 sabre. The only thing I lack is a full shower, and some more tankage, which might lead me to a 362 sabre one day, or similar sized vessel.

Comfort to me means,a vessel that will stand up to a blow and doesn't require super-human efforts to operate. ( easily reefed, lines led to the cockpit etc,) A good sea berth, that one doesn't get thrown out of. A cabin that stays dry. I think everyone can find comfort on a calm, sunny day on just about any vessel.

Speed is relative, faster is always good, but not if I have to sacrifice quality of construction or carry less Rum to obtain it.
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Old 29-11-2009, 09:17   #27
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Performance versus living space?
Are we talking about living on board or just weekend sailing? Because there is a tremendous difference between the two.

For weekend sailing I would go more for the sport and that means performance. But for living onboard, living space is important, especially storage room. Of course it is also nice with a good performance on a live on-board boat to avoid bad weather if possible.

However, I have not yet seen a really bad performance boat (there might be some though) in seizes from 28 to 55 feet, of those I have sailed during my 50 years of sailing. What I have seen, is that there are lots of boats with too little storage space and bad utilized living space. I have seen 35 feet sailing boats with more living space inside than a bad 50 utilized footer. Especially newer production boats like the Beneteau 57, first shown in year 2000, what a disater that one is. Not one locker where you can hang a normal shirt, they are not high enough inside and they are very few in total. These boats are what we call weekend party boats for the marina, but useless for Blue-water cruising, to live in longer times
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To sum up, I would say, go for living and storage space and most of the time you will get a decent performer.
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Old 29-11-2009, 11:56   #28
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To me it is always the sailing characteristics of the boat. Maybe not exactly the 'performance', but why not it is nice to have both.

But this just when cruising. When living aboard any tub will do, sailing performance does not count, the tub's volume and comforts do.

So, money no limit, I would go for a performance cruiser (things like the Dykstra's Besteaver, Kanter's Bougainvillea, Zall's Atlantics, etc.)

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Old 29-11-2009, 12:30   #29
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i was asking myself same question few weeks ago.
from my experiences race boats tend to me more 'alive' on the waves at least when anchored/ docked. after all only its hull alone is made to be responsive, agile and fast. this means you'll be rolling more often = less sleep which is a no go for a liveaboard.

you put the thread into multihull subforum and space is not a problem for multihulls so my choise is 'speed over space' option.
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Old 29-11-2009, 14:28   #30
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When someone says to me they want to cruise, I think Bahamas / Caribbean cruising where being self sufficient is more of a priority than speed. To be self sufficient, you need space for things.. provisions, spares, extra clothing perhaps, fuel, water, batteries.

A long run in the bahamas might be a full day. Most closer to several hours or less. Get to the Caribbean and you can have longer passages of course but still pretty short in the scheme of things.

For me, comfort is King. Speed be damned. If needed I can motorsail at 9+ or sail at 7, but I plan for 5kts and don't really care if I only make 3. Anchorage to anchorage is my goal when out, and when there I want comforts to a degree. I get there about the same time as the fast 36 footers and only slightly behind the trawlers.

Full sized reefer, room for w/d, watermaker, king bed, full shower, galley and TONs of storage. All this for 40k + refit (genset, rigging)
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