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Old 28-04-2009, 09:42   #1
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Sailing neophite needs info

I am not new to boating but all but a week on a Colgate 21 I have very litle experience. I am inland and therefore there are few marinas to wander about to observe rigging.

I am 62, and hope to get a sea going boat from 33 to 44 ft long. I have done bare boat power charters, have US Navy 65 ft landing craft experience.

That being said, I do not like the idea of having to go on the bow, at sea for servicing sails. Is there some kind of rule of thumb to determine which boats have all lines led to the cockpit when shopping on Yachtworld?
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Old 28-04-2009, 10:05   #2
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Generally speaking, anything with roller furling headsail will have the jib sheets and furler lines led back to the cockpit. In addition, if you really don't want to go forward of the cockpit, you might look for clutch blocks on either side of the companionway, that indicates the main halyard and other lines are led back. You might also want to look for single line reefing, and make sure all the lines run free. A jammed line that runs back to the cockpit is as bad, if not worse, than having to go forward.
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Old 28-04-2009, 11:10   #3
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What do you mean by "run free"? I guess I better get me a book on sailing and 'git learned up'. Any reccomendations on study material?
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Old 28-04-2009, 11:39   #4
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What do you mean by "run free"? I guess I better get me a book on sailing and 'git learned up'. Any reccomendations on study material?
I should have said, make sure the lines run freely. What I mean is, if you look at a used boat, all the lines may look tidy and lead back to the cockpit, but when you get ready to lower sails or roll them in, the sails may be hard to bring down. The main, in particular, might not drop down because of a number of issues that I won't get into. Same with the roller furled genoa, the drum may be hard to turn, etc. And, if you need to go forward and deal with an issue, it may be harder to do if the lines are running through all kinds of blocks back to the cockpit than if you have a nice clean layout, even though the lines are not led back.

Bottom line, look not just at the boat's design, but test it on the water.

As far as learning, the ASA has some good courses with material. Just find a local ASA sailing school and take the beginner courses.
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Old 29-04-2009, 17:58   #5
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are you looking to buy a boat or just rent for the day?
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Old 29-04-2009, 18:31   #6
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Still attempting to work it out with my estranged right now. Everytime I get ready to lawyer up it looks like it is going to work out.
she likes boating and had a good time on our charters but she is not ready to commit to the marriage or the crusing life yet. I am struggling with that issue and the issue of power or sail. I hit her with this one tonight.

1953 U.S. Navy design Pilothouse Liveaboard Cruising Trawler Commercial Boat For

Then she had to run rather than dealing with her upcoming retirement. She left me and I am playing out the cards I am delt for now but I have on intention of getting so old I can't move and let life get away in the name of grandchildren..or her for that matter. I am ready to chunk it all right now and move aboard. She aint. Too scary for her I guess. I will have this delt with one way or the other by August.

So to answer your quesion, I am going to buy, it is just a matter of this year or in the next 2. I might slap a 2nd mortgage on the house and go claim that one, have not decited yet..boy that will be a fight. If we cosy up I might charter another time or 2, perhaps take sailing lessons again? Things are up in the air as you can tell.

I am trying to get learned up on sails, I can deal with them but I would prefer a full displacement power boat that sips fuel. There are lots of sail boats out there but there are not too many full displacement power boats that are affordable and worth a damn. Lots of worn out fishers but a good one is kindda hard to find, hence the attraction to sail.
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Old 29-04-2009, 20:05   #7
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Permit me to demonstrate the quote associated with my postings:
  1. My 1st reaction to reading your posts was "is this guy serious???" Mate, you have a LOT of unfinished business to resolve before even contemplating this "fascade in your mind". Speaking from an applicable professional perspective, you need to sort out the relationship issues first ... NO kind of sea adventure will EVER resolve the issues between you and your estranged partner!
  2. "Sailing neophite needs information" is an understatement! I read your "I don't like to go forward" statement, and looked at that ad for what is in effect a 'trawler'.
  3. BTW, how may nautical miles do you think 760 gals of fuel will take you in that trawler?
  4. Do you think there are petrol-diesel stations conveniently located so you can 'fill-er-up'?
  5. Do you honestly think, regardless of the rigging set up you might have on some sailboat, that you could get by for even 1 day without having to go forward? If so, dream on!
The above sarcasism aside, there are several books available that can 'enlighten you' to the realities of the 'change of life' you would like to explore. One of my personal favourites is Beth Leonard's "The Voyager's Handbook", 2nd edition.

Bottom-line: Start at the beginning, not in the middle mate. Good luck!

William
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Old 29-04-2009, 21:33   #8
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My unfinished business will be wrapped up by August, one way or the other. By then both of us will be sick of f'in with it. This goes back 38 years so I reckon from January until August will be fair.

Next, that boat will go 1200 to 1600 nm on a full tank. I have no desire to go to the South Pacific.

You are right though, right now I have a lot on my plate. Kids are grown and the financial settlement will be easy. Last time I checked I was issued 1 life, I have no intention of worrying about whether the caladiums will come up for the next 20 or so years and about the health of the ferns. While I love my grand children I am not going to live my life through them.

I have done basic sailing taught on a Colgate 21, but that was 5 years ago and I have not sailed since. I need to do a crewed charter on a 30 to 40 ft boat to determine if I want to fool with sails. I am competient on a single or twin power boat, sails though.... I hung around Galveston bay for 15 years, and I noticed sailboats seemed to motor an awful lot.

I will get the book and read it, Maybe do some lake sailing for ref-tra (refersher training). Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 29-04-2009, 22:22   #9
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That book is specifically written for those who want to identify, make the necessary upgrade, and actually sail a yacht off-shore.

So perhaps it may not be the best investment for you. Perhaps start a new thread that focuses on "strictly" your interests, likely boating intentions, any concerns (as you have already done), and more clearly probable travel plans. The ask about books that might facilitate a greater awareness in those areas you need more knowledge about.

Cheers

William
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Old 29-04-2009, 22:31   #10
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Wink Just a note

Some seem to think that going to a boat is getting away from burdens! When in fact being a boat owner is a very high responsibility, more so then maintaining a woman.

When someone else is out on the boat with you, you have their health/life in your hands. One then becomes the Captain, Fire Marshall, Safety Supervisor, Navigator, Supply Officer, Rigger, Painter, Maintenance Specialist, Mechanic, Laundryman, Chief Bottle Washer and so on!

Quote:
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Next, that boat will go 1200 to 1600 nm on a full tank. I have no desire to go to the South Pacific.
Is that with the wind and current or against it. But yeah, it sounds like you'd be more of a power boater having all that Navy Mic boat experience. Sailboats are not for the lazy or frail. At times they can be physically and mentally demanding, testing ones audacity.
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Old 30-04-2009, 03:49   #11
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this link is for a boat that will fit the trawler/sailing vessel.

BTW I suggest the book Setting Sail. Although it was written in the early 80's, it (as I re-read it now) amazes me how little the prices have changed with respect to what you can acquire for the goal of sailing somewhere.
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Old 30-04-2009, 08:51   #12
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Some seem to think that going to a boat is getting away from burdens! When in fact being a boat owner is a very high responsibility, more so then maintaining a woman.

When someone else is out on the boat with you, you have their health/life in your hands. One then becomes the Captain, Fire Marshall, Safety Supervisor, Navigator, Supply Officer, Rigger, Painter, Maintenance Specialist, Mechanic, Laundryman, Chief Bottle Washer and so on!



Is that with the wind and current or against it. But yeah, it sounds like you'd be more of a power boater having all that Navy Mic boat experience. Sailboats are not for the lazy or frail. At times they can be physically and mentally demanding, testing ones audacity.
The range I mentioned has a 20% cushion based on 3 gallon per hour at 7 knots so sea conditions should not be a factor unless you are on your way to Wakki. I guess I could go with this Beebe:

1980 Beebe Passagemaker Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Yeah, I realize moving on board is not a way to run from anything, you just trade one problem set for another. As for physical demands of sailing, today no problem, I am in very good shape and today the bow does not scare me in the least but I am 62 and am realistic enough to have an eye to the future and aging. Hellva lot of sail boats go on the market because of the physical demands you speak of.

As for being a Captain I am a hands on guy, an old hotrodder, biker, electronics tech (telcom tech), welder, carpender, plumber, destroyer Boatswain Mate (which means painter, navagator, lookout, helmsman and small boat coxin). My skill set is applicable to living aboard.

While I love my wife, she is not irreplaceable and I am willing to move on if necessary, even with 38 years on the line. Whatta bet there is not another match or 2 or dozens, or thousands out there that want a man that is not the yard guy, church guy, grand pa guy, go to guy involving the skill set I mentioned that is healty, ususally fun, witty not addicted and educated that loves life and dogs. We have worked our ass off since the day we met to meet obligations of family, if she is not ready to live for us rather than everybody else, I am prepared to find one that is, or not find one and go with short term crew. She has her school teacher retirement and I have mine so if our intrest going different directions so be it, neither will starve, the world will keep turning and the sun will keep rising and setting.
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Old 30-04-2009, 10:02   #13
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Mule, the more I read about your situation, I agree with the recommendation to look for a power trawler instead of a sailboat. It's not as physically demanding, and suits your experience.

That Colgate 21 is a nice sailboat to learn to sail in, but going from that to a fully equipped blue water cruiser in which you are the skipper is a huge jump. Something a young person might do, with the time and energy to make mistakes and recover, but at your age, why not just enjoy life and find a boat suitable to your capabilities and experience?
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Old 30-04-2009, 10:27   #14
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a better idea might be to re-think your size range

Too many people purchase the biggest boat they can afford rather than the biggest boat they can handle in a blow. An older gent in my marina who has mobility problems just bought his first sailboat, a new Beneteau 49. Guess which boat in our marina is least likely to go out on a day to day basis. The poor guy can't even get the boat out of the dock without crew.

You might want to consider newer designs that have self-tailing jibs, from as small as a Morris M29 to as large as a Hanse 34. At that point you may find that you've locked into something that's easier to sail than your Colgate. If you're realistically not going to spend more than a week or two at a time on the boat, a smaller boat is the way to go, and you'll have a lot more fun on those boats than some trawler.
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Old 30-04-2009, 12:37   #15
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Going forward

I agree with William that having to go to the foredeck on a sailboat is inevitable. When I started sailing, I didn't feel that comfortable moving around the boat. The good news is, you get over it. When things can go wrong, they will and if you don't want to go forward, the situation you're confronted with will inevitably require you to do so.
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