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Old 18-12-2015, 08:11   #286
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Junk Rigs, and soft wing sails

BTW, here is a very interesting discussions that contains many references to modern junk rigs,...and with lots of posted illustrations
The design of soft wing sails for cruising - Boat Design Forums
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Old 18-12-2015, 08:23   #287
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Acceptance of Free Standing Masts

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Originally Posted by u4ea32 View Post
Last fall at IBEX, there was a session where free standing rigs were discussed in the context of "why are none built today, when they seemed to all of the industry to be the right way to do it?"

The reason jointly agreed was that the number of people who want one are now served by the small number that have already been built.

Its not the cost to produce. Its not performance. Its not cost of ownership.

Its the market demand.

That was the group consensus of people who have been building and selling boats for decades. That does not mean its exactly right, but its the way designers, builders, and brokers have learned through direct experience to think about freestanding masts.

I am designing a boat for retirement: to be built to a budget and operated under a fixed income without big shocks to capital. A boat I can operate when I am as decrepit as my parents.

I figure resale happens after I am no longer around to worry about it.
Interesting observations,...had to repeat it.
Thanks
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Old 18-12-2015, 08:29   #288
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Omar Wing Sail

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
Omer wing sail on a Wally and a Bene

That might be a viable alternative to my trying to place a DynaRig on a multihull
DynaRig MotorSailer
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Old 18-12-2015, 08:30   #289
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

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Ill fated Team Phillips catamaran.
Really a shame, her demise
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Old 18-12-2015, 08:33   #290
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

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Interesting square topped schooner Farfarer.
VERY INTERESTING I had not seen her before.
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Old 18-12-2015, 09:08   #291
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Sparhawk Designs

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Greetings
I sailed for some years on a friends boat called a Sparhawk 42,
It was schooner rig, free standing carbon fibre masts.
I have never seen some for sale on the internet (only some 35ft that are quite different)
When my friend past away the vessel was purchased by a friend of his and I believe it is in Poland or there about now.

The Sparhawk was designed and built after the tragedy of the Fastnet a few decades ago. The vessels are unsinkable (my friends named his Molly, for that reason), The vessel has a canard keel, open transom, center queen bed in the V-berth etc.

Sailing that boat was magic, I never experienced anything like that before or since. Once the two full batten sails were relatively properly tuned you could let go of the helm and just watch the boat accelerate.
As one sail loaded up the tip of the mast would bend and the sail would spill and the same would happen to the other sail balancing the vessel perfectly. The canard keel gave the boat incredible tracking (compare it to a 3/4 keel) yet nimble and easy to tack and point.

Given the chance I would have and still would purchase one of those boat.
Cheers,
Sparhawk background by Eric Sponberg:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Sponberg
The Sparhawk 36 and 42 were designed by my friend Richard Black who is now retired, living in Seville, Spain, and is an accomplished (and famous) Flamenco guitarist. The first Sparhawk 36 (or maybe the first 2-3) were built in Southern California. The others were built by Cat Ketch Yachts, originally in Miami and Honduras, later relocated to Port Arthur, TX. Just a handful of 36s were built, and only 2 42s were built, if memory serves. I designed the carbon fiber masts for both boats.

Cat Ketch Yachts also built the Herreshoff Cat Ketches, designed by Halsey Herreshoff. They came in models of 27', 28' 31', 33', 38', 40', and 45'. The first few Herreshoffs all had wooden spars, but they were really heavy, so they came to me to design carbon fiber/S-2 glass spars, which all the models adopted. The most popular of these was the 31'er. It was during this time with the Herreshoff's that I had a call from Richard Black, whom I had met a few years before when we both lived in Ventura, CA, and we talked about new masts for his Sparhawk 36 design. I put him in touch with John Newton, who owned Cat Ketch Yachts, and they made a deal to build the boats and I would design the masts. The Sparhawk masts are all-carbon, built on the same mandrel as the Herreshoff masts, but different lay-up. I still have all that engineering and design work here in my office. John Newton, by the way, is also well known as the builder of the original Grand Banks motoryachts (along with his brothers) in Singapore back in the 1960s. He is mostly retired now and lives in Venice, FL, although he does keep one of his companies (not marine related) going.

The Sparhawks are excellent sailers, and people seem to hold onto them for a long time. The Cat Ketch Yacht versions were all built on male formers (no female tooling used) with Airex foam core. All the boats were sanded and painted, no gelcoat used. At least one and maybe a few of the 36s were fitted with the Warwick Collins keel, which is a two-blade (fore-aft arrangement) keel with a huge delta wing shape connecting the tips.

My wife and I had completed our sailing cruise from England in August 1978 in Ventura, and that is where I first opened Sponberg Yacht Design. A few months later, Richard called me on the phone to say he was a part-time boat designer and that he was moving his family to Ventura in order to build his first design, the Shearwater 28, a cat ketch. (His real job was as a counselor to criminal teenagers.) That's how we met, and I consulted with Richard on the build of his boat, along with Craig Ashby, a multihull builder who also moved to Ventura then, to build Richard's boat along with a trimaran he was going to build. (Craig died when he fell off the mast of the trimaran just before it was to be launched.) I designed the masts for Richard's Shearwater, the first free-standing masts I ever designed. They were built in aluminum (tapered aluminum tubes).

So, if the Sparhawk that you found is in good shape, you'd likely be quite pleased with it.

I hope all that background helps.
Eric
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Old 18-12-2015, 09:17   #292
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Project Amazon

Here is another good article from Professional Boatbuilder magazine on a big freestanding design by Eric

oops that PDF is too large to load here,....so perhaps you can find the link here:
Whatever Happend to Project Amazon?
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Old 18-12-2015, 15:11   #293
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Re: Junk Rigs, and soft wing sails

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BTW, here is a very interesting discussions .....[/url]
Wow! Lots of information - 19 pages of highly technical stuff (though I only read pages 1 & 19) - think I'll stick with simple Chinese JR, or cat-ketch, if/when I can find one.

BTW, I see the JR Allied Princess 'Alethiea' is still for sale in Florida (on Sailboat Listings) - anyone familiar with this yacht?
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Old 18-12-2015, 15:50   #294
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Re: Junk Rigs, and soft wing sails

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Originally Posted by NevisDog View Post
Wow! Lots of information - 19 pages of highly technical stuff (though I only read pages 1 & 19) - think I'll stick with simple Chinese JR, or cat-ketch, if/when I can find one.

BTW, I see the JR Allied Princess 'Alethiea' is still for sale in Florida (on Sailboat Listings) - anyone familiar with this yacht?
Yes.....I think all the info you need are on pages 6 to 8 & 13..
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Old 18-12-2015, 20:45   #295
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Re: Eric Sponberg, free standing mast

Mr Eiland, really enjoyed your article on your aft based mast with large genny, staysail, and mizzen configuration. I am a multihuller and think it addresses many of the issues that all sailors worry about when offshore in a blow, helm balance, safety at sea, sudden squalls and large sails, and simplicity in hardware. Thank you, sincerely, for your educational information.
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Old 18-12-2015, 23:26   #296
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Re: Eric Sponberg, free standing mast

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Mr Eiland, really enjoyed your article on your aft based mast.....
Yes, for anyone else who may have overlooked post #285 - "Aftmast rig" - well worth reading as it explains the drawbacks/inefficiencies of the ubiquitous bermudan mainsail.
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Old 19-12-2015, 05:44   #297
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Single-masted Ketch

Alan, Nevis, thanks for your praise.

You might also enjoy a few other postings I've made on the subject....

Origination & Justification
Aftmast rigs??? - Page 7 - Boat Design Forums

Wind tunnel and CFD investigation of unconventional aftmast rigs
Aftmast rigs??? - Page 52 - Boat Design Forums
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Old 20-12-2015, 06:57   #298
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Re: Single-masted Ketch

will look forward to that after work. Happy Holidays to you and your family.
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Old 20-12-2015, 20:08   #299
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Re: Aerorigs

Hello all.

Really interesting thread.

I have about 35,000 miles at seas on a 60' Aerorig sloop designed by Van de Stadt, including a circumnavigation on her between 2003 & 2009.

If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to answer any questions around the Aerorig or to start with a post on a couple of the questions that seem to come up again and again around sailing to windward in strong winds and how you survive a really serious storm with an unstayed rig, both of which I have first hand experience of.

I have no practical experience of other unstayed rigs so I cannot make valid comparisons between them.

Here are a couple of pictures of La Novia.

Cheers

Mike
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Old 20-12-2015, 20:19   #300
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Re: Sailboats with Free Standing Masts

Mike,

Welcome aboard CF and to this discussion too!

Your boat looks very nice!

I will admit I am no expert on the Aerorig, and one other boat I had seen with the rig turned me off, mostly because of unfamiliarity (guilty) and because on the look of that boat on which the scale of the rig seemed off to my eyes. It looked big and bulky.

Your boat does not give me the same negative impression, and instead looks very nice, nicely propotprtioned.

I hope you will tell us all something of your views as an owner, based on your extensive experience with many miles using it.
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