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Old 25-08-2016, 03:58   #76
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

I used to like the idea of a motorsailer until I realized they're the worst of both worlds. They sail like a block of wood amd motor like a block of wood.

They do neither well, and stink at both. Most people figure it out, which why manufacturers have difficulty selling them. Example: Shannon just went bankrupt trying to market their latest block of wood.
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Old 25-08-2016, 04:28   #77
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

Power Cats make a lot of since, especially if they have the 150hp engines.
They will cruise at 8 or 9 knots on one motor.
Great to maneuver in a small spaces with both engines
Great platform at anchor or on a mooring.
Plenty of space for live aboard.
Plenty of room for lots of solar.
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Old 25-08-2016, 04:29   #78
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Yep.

As long as there is enough load to get the engine up to temperature, there is no real harm. The warnings are usually related to "excessive" use of the engine to charge batteries, particularly if you very rarely actually use the engine for propulsion. The problem is with almost no load, diesel engines are so efficient that they won't reach operating temperatures if they are just idling. By the time you get up to 25% throttle, that's plenty to get them up to temperature.

FYI - third hand info from a random guy on the internet about something they may have heard incorrectly at a presentation years ago, isn't exactly rock solid proof of anything.
FWIW, if I'm motor sailing under low load, I make it a practice to run at high revs for a few minutes every few hours in accordance with manufacturers recommendations.
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Old 25-08-2016, 05:21   #79
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Power Cats make a lot of since, especially if they have the 150hp engines.
They will cruise at 8 or 9 knots on one motor.
Great to maneuver in a small spaces with both engines
Great platform at anchor or on a mooring.
Plenty of space for live aboard.
Plenty of room for lots of solar.
The OP has a budget to spend less than $100k. Not sure if Canadian or USD. But please let us know of any powercats available in this price range.
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Old 25-08-2016, 05:36   #80
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

I've had both - crossed the Atlantic on my sailboat. While a trawler is about as fuel efficient at low speeds as a sailboat at low speeds, most open ocean usage of a sailboat is under sail (Duh).

I traded to a trawler because I do mostly short trips near shore - and the trawler, while much LESS space, is quite comfortable and takes no bridge openings.

$ for $, take a look at Catamarans. My re-engined Gemini with brand new sails was worth about $50K with relatively new electronics, and space to sleep 2+3 with no problem.

At the higher end of the spectrum, a 39' Leopard or similar cat is $250 and has two separate hulls for sleeping - so privacy is enhanced - and with two engines and sails, reliability is increased.

My Voyage (or similar) cat in the 43' range has a separate shower room, washer and dryer, full air conditioning, wate rmaker, and a record of several ocean crossings - most boats of this size are delivered on their own bottom. They are truly blue water boats in the range of the highest range Ocean trawlers.

Cats are also forgiving sailboats - if you don't carry excessive sail, they generally are flat and predictable to handle.

When I first purchased, I tried (chartered) a number of boats after getting rides on boats of that type to see if I found them comfortable.

Good luck - I urge you to charter in the Bahamas (Marsh Harbor) and the islands (BVI is a good starter place). Hire a skipper or invite a friend who sails covering her/his expenses to get you going.

/Stu
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Old 26-08-2016, 00:14   #81
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
FWIW, if I'm motor sailing under low load, I make it a practice to run at high revs for a few minutes every few hours in accordance with manufacturers recommendations.
But I doubt you are running a 150hp diesel at 25% throttle while motor sailing. s you say, it' petty easy to throttle up for a short period to make sure the engine gets up to temp.
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Old 26-08-2016, 05:50   #82
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
But I doubt you are running a 150hp diesel at 25% throttle while motor sailing. s you say, it' petty easy to throttle up for a short period to make sure the engine gets up to temp.
Yeah, his comment made no sense to me neither. The temp is controlled by the thermostat. It will get up to temp regardless of revs or load. Exception being if you are in artic waters. We actually had to close the raw water intake and run the engine only on the fresh water in the exchanger; with anxious eyes on the gauges.
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:03   #83
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
But I doubt you are running a 150hp diesel at 25% throttle while motor sailing. s you say, it' petty easy to throttle up for a short period to make sure the engine gets up to temp.

This is more about exhaust temps than jacket temp. While the coolant may be at the thermostat setting, the exhaust valves as well as the Pistons etc... Have combustion temps well below ideal design. Therefor a hard run to "clean" off the deposits from running the engine "cold".

Note everything in quotes is relative.


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Old 26-08-2016, 06:08   #84
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I used to like the idea of a motorsailer until I realized they're the worst of both worlds. They sail like a block of wood amd motor like a block of wood.

They do neither well, and stink at both. Most people figure it out, which why manufacturers have difficulty selling them. Example: Shannon just went bankrupt trying to market their latest block of wood.
Grand Banks thought about producing a motor sailing version of its trawler design. Was not only ugly as h*&%, but as you said, was the worst of both worlds.
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:12   #85
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
This is more about exhaust temps than jacket temp. While the coolant may be at the thermostat setting, the exhaust valves as well as the Pistons etc... Have combustion temps well below ideal design. Therefor a hard run to "clean" off the deposits from running the engine "cold".

Note everything in quotes is relative.


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???The jacket temp mirrors the internal temp. Combustion temps?? Ignition temps are a function of compression and fuel. Running an engine cold? That is why you have a thermostat. Occasionally revving a diesel engine does it no good since you are adding a lot of fuel at once that can not be burnt quickly. You will just carbon up the engine. Which is why if you gun the throttle you get black smoke coming out your rear, and the boat's also.
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:22   #86
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Isn't living on the typical sailboat like living in a cellar?
Yes, it actually is.

And this is one of the reason why people like catamarans -- so that the main living area at least is abovedecks.

This is much better on monos with raised salons (originally Oysters and Moodys but now most high end cruising boats), or monos with pilothouses. The raised salon is created by putting tankage and so forth under the salon and raising up the salon sole level, so that the dog house becomes kind of a low deck house.

Won't bother you if you live in the cockpit, and are in the right climate for that, however.
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:25   #87
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Yeah, his comment made no sense to me neither. The temp is controlled by the thermostat. It will get up to temp regardless of revs or load. Exception being if you are in artic waters. We actually had to close the raw water intake and run the engine only on the fresh water in the exchanger; with anxious eyes on the gauges.

That doesn't surprise me.

Did I mention temperature? Ever heard of wet stacking? Or bore glazing? Or carbon deposits?

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Old 26-08-2016, 06:30   #88
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
???The jacket temp mirrors the internal temp. Combustion temps?? Ignition temps are a function of compression and fuel. Running an engine cold? That is why you have a thermostat. Occasionally revving a diesel engine does it no good since you are adding a lot of fuel at once that can not be burnt quickly. You will just carbon up the engine. Which is why if you gun the throttle you get black smoke coming out your rear, and the boat's also.
More false "facts" from some anonymous internet source? Sigh!
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:33   #89
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
FWIW, if I'm motor sailing under low load, I make it a practice to run at high revs for a few minutes every few hours in accordance with manufacturers recommendations.
That's exactly what Yanmar recommends, and that's exactly what I do, too.


Yanmar even make a "trolling lever" for some of their engines, for the specific purpose of allowing you to run the engine at 1000 rpm.
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Old 26-08-2016, 06:59   #90
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Re: Sailboat or trawler ???

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Originally Posted by reed1v View Post
Yeah, his comment made no sense to me neither. The temp is controlled by the thermostat. It will get up to temp regardless of revs or load. Exception being if you are in artic waters. We actually had to close the raw water intake and run the engine only on the fresh water in the exchanger; with anxious eyes on the gauges.
Running your raw water pump dry is a good way to ruin an impellor. Also, I can say from experience that running my diesel with little load to charge batteries or at low rpms will not typically bring it up to operating temp.
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