"Sail Away"? What else is needed?

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "... and I have made everything from mainsail covers, lee cloths, weather cloths,..."

A prosaic questioon, Ann: What do you use for a cutting table when you do stuff like mainsl covers?

And for the OP: "Stuff" ads up! A decent pair of shears for canvas work is a hunnertandfifty bux. You can't save money without spending money. AS someone said: if you buy "of the shelf" at a boat show, you'll be spending as much again on fitting out before you'll be halfway satisfied with your ship.

TrentePieds

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by lancelot9898

Two books by Nigel Calder. "Cruising Handbook" and "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual"

Very good recommendation. I've noted before that if I could ONLY take two books on a cruise, these would be the ones. Twos?

One thing that is critically important is the electrical system. To this day most new boats from the production builders may not only be deficient in the quantity of the house bank, but the switching is not up to what most cruisers have found to be preferable: a large house bank with a separate either reserve or start bank.

We don't know what the OP's sailing experience has been or what he knows about electrical systems. Most new boat owners end up quite surprised.

[FionaJC]

I put my boat in the water in 2003, I'm still fitting it out, with experience and knowledge I'm adding bits on all the time. I have to dmit that I havent found anything was a waste of time except I have gone overboard with all the spares and tools, but if I didnt have them I know I would need them as soon as I take them off.

Fiona

[JPA Cate]

You will figure out for yourself what "extras" you want. Wants are different from needs, and the ones we choose for our boats are an expression of personal ideas. Take radar. I love it. But you can cruise safely without it. One adjusts one's behavior. As long as you're coastal, you don't need an autopilot unless you singlehand. Want is different. For ocean passages, you do need an autopilot or windvane. The intended use of the boat matters for what you will need. You will want a dodger--it should have been on my first list. FWIW, I think hard dodgers are a better deal than soft ones.

I guess I'd say "sail away" means it has sails and halyards. Maybe the engine works right, maybe not. I agree that often boat show boats are not well set up: I have known some sold with structural defects. So, don't buy when "boat lust" is on you. If money is a consideration, then be canny with it.

Ann

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Quote: "... and I have made everything from mainsail covers, lee cloths, weather cloths,..."

A prosaic questioon, Ann: What do you use for a cutting table when you do stuff like mainsl covers?

And for the OP: "Stuff" ads up! A decent pair of shears for canvas work is a hunnertandfifty bux. You can't save money without spending money. AS someone said: if you buy "of the shelf" at a boat show, you'll be spending as much again on fitting out before you'll be halfway satisfied with your ship.

TrentePieds

Hi, Trente Pieds, well, it's a long story. Our shears were bought over 30 years ago, and cost between 25 & 30 at that time. Have worked well. Are only used for cutting fabrics, just like my Wiss pinking shears (which I have loaned out but not needed again! Go figure!)

Cutting out of mainsails: good question. The first one, I cut out on the lawn at the place where we had the boat. It was a plain, old fashioned one, pretty simple. I later made on deck sail bags to stow the head sails. I used old jib hanks to hank the bag to the toe rail, and made apertures for the sail ties, so they, too were secured to the toe rail, so the bag really only had to protect the down sail from the UV, as the sail itself was secured by 3 ties to the toe rail. Those worked a treat, and I don't remember where I cut them out. We made them along the way, somewhere.

Our most recent exploit, the boom bag and cowl for this boat, was cut out in two different places. We went in to a marina in Newcastle and laid out and cut on the guest dock--it has wide docks, narrow ones would not have worked. The cowl was cut out on a picnic table in Pittwater, but it is a lot smaller. With a 19 ft. long boom, it is hard to find somewhere appropriate to do it, and we don't have sail loft connections for doing something like that.

Fortunately, Jim can still work on his knees, but I no longer can. Over all, I mostly cut out on picnic tables (where I did the dinghy chaps) when I can, there are often parks near where the boat is, and it's easy, no one seems to mind. Or, I cut out on the top of the engine box, which is where i do fender covers, and the ilk.

Jim says a short answer would be better: lawn, picnic tables, not ideal, but find some way to get the job done, be flexible.

As to the costs of fitting out, in 1983, it was roughly 20k for a 36 boat costing about 65k previously cruised. I'm sure it is more now.

Ann

[Tetepare]

Typically a new boat comes with nothing- even the things you need. No sails, no electronics, no dodger and of course nothing else.

Sail Away includes sails, some electronics, I don't know about fridge. Certainly not A/C in many cases.

You still have to add a dodger/ bimini, dinghy davits, pole, and "the stuff"- fenders, lines, anchor, horn, and every other little bit of gear you need to navigate, eat, and sleep.

But what do I know? Nobody I know has bought a new boat in over 20 years. The biggest complaint I hear is "darn, now we need one, and we sold ours with the boat"

[Cadence]

It would seem you need to ask. One maker or salesmen may have one concept and another totally different. It sounds like a loosely used fraise.

[JPA Cate]

Maybe all "Sail Away" means is that the boat part is finished, the commissioning yet to be done. If so, a bit of a misleading phrase.

A.

[TrentePieds]

@ Ann Cate:

Thanks Ann. Tell Jim I LIKE your long answer ;-0)!

When you and I were young, Annie, I bought a little Seabird - the genuwine article. So genuwine, in fact, that she still had cotton sails! Egyptian cotton was still the material of choice when I learned to sail, but by the time the Seabird came along the material was, of course, dacron. And Circe needed a new main. Badly!

I had a certain notoriety at my alma mater, and could take certain liberties. For the institution's first few semesters I, as a "mature student" (ahem!), was responsible for room scheduling. Tom Watson and his magic machines had not yet arrived. The quick and easy solution to my lay-out and cutting problems was therefore to schedule a large tutorial room for the purpose :-)

The stitching was done on a treadle Singer of considerable antiquity fitted with a #12 needle. Straight stitch, of course. No walking foot, so the panels were carefully marked with strike-up marks every few inches while still on the floor, and extreme care was required to make the marks marry. Never thought of "duck tape". But it worked.

Having had some experience as a sailplane pilot and having designed competitive soaring model aircraft since I emerged from the womb, I decided that given the unyielding personality of dacron, there were better ways to get a belly than to '"throw in a curve" in the luff in the time-honoured way. Above and below the mitre, the seams were absolutely straight, but employing some basic trig I shaped the mitre edges of the panels so that the bunt must necessarily take the shape of a famous aerofoil called "Clark Y". In the years twixt the wars there was a maxim in aircraft design: "Make it fly - use Clark Y".

Circe was very appreciative of her slick new main, and actually came close to sailing as a Seabird should :-)

A year or so ago, you will recall, there was some talk here about sewing machines. I picked up a Pfaff 130 for a hunnert bux, but I don't think it's doing me any more good than the old treadle Singer. And a fully operational 130 is tough to stow in a 30-footer :-)


TrentePids

[Bulawayo]

Now this is what I call a really meaningful post. I was going to write a post myself but Anne has covered it better than I could have.



QUOTE=Ann T. Cate;2325666]If you're serious about cruising, imo, you will need a real anchor, not the toy that comes with your boat. Check out the threads Photos of Anchors Setting and videos of anchors setting.

You will need a dinghy, with an outboard motor. You will need shade protection for hot places*, and good ventilation (like dorades and opening ports., and fans.) You will need rain protection for your hatches so that they can be kept open while the wind is blowing and the rain is falling.

*Some people will tell you this must be a bimini. I do not believe this is necessarily so. For the last 30 yrs, we have made do with a 1/2 shiftable underway awning, and a cockpit awning for at anchor.

You will need to add handholds, so that you can be safe in a seaway moving forward and aft as needed, and a butt belt for the galley, unless you have a "U" shaped galley.

You will want a good quality bilge pump or two, both electric and manual, at the very least. If your boat has a shower, its sump should be separate from the ship's bilge, and have its own pump. Be sure you have a toilet that is manually operated. The boat may have two, one electric is okay, but you need a head that can be used by hand pumping, or go for a desiccating (sometimes called composting) head, if there are only two aboard.

You will need to add insulation to the fridge, most of them come with 2", but need 4". A salt water pump for the galley, for rinsing dishes is a useful, water saving addition.

Add lee cloths and attachments for them in the saloon area, so that the settees areas are available in rough weather, on passages. Optional: weather cloths for privacy in the cockpit, and water protection.

If you don't have fiddles, buy a lot of non-skid "fabric" for the horizontal surfaces.


Above decks, you'll want a spinnaker pole, reaching strut, preventers against accidental gybes. You will probably want roller furling headsails and possibly a roller furling main. [Some people love them, we have slab reefing on a larger boat.] Lots of discussion of all this on CF, check the archives. Use the Google CF Custom Search.

How about an electric windlass? It is a great back saver. We like having ours.

Some people like to add a barbecue, and a meat line.

You may want to add lazy jacks for your mainsail, and jack lines for offshore passages. And harnesses with crotch straps. Possibly self-inflating, but check about maintenance, because you might be better off with one you have to inflate, or a combo.

Some people will tell you you need a PLB. You will want an EPIRB, most likely. Perhaps AIS. (We have the latter two). We also have SSB (ham & maritime) radio, which works for us, but many people prefer to trust Satphone. These can have some peculiar failure modes, so we stick with what we have, although Jim is quite accepting of modern technology.


On a lighter note, you will benefit from having swim clothes, fins, snorkels, mask.

More money and less clothes. (You can always buy more clothes, as needed.)

There are whole threads about tools. But the deal here is that you lose precious time out of your lives if you have to wait on someone else to fix *stuff*. The more *stuff* you have to be fixed, the more time your lives are on hold. The more stuff you can fix yourselves, the less time you spend waiting. Don't buy expensive tools you don't know how to use. Learn how to use it/them properly first.

Learn about repairing, diesel engines, refrigeration, electronic devices, simple wiring and plumbing, or spend weeks and weeks waiting on others who may not do as good a job as you could do with some CF guidance, once you learn how to separate the good advice from the less experienced.

Sewing. I have always had a sewing machine aboard, and I have made everything from mainsail covers, lee cloths, weather cloths, to wraparound skirts to give to islanders....and other friends, including my sister in law. I have sewn on other people's sacrificial strips to their jibs [done ashore, with Jim driving the hand crank], lots of little projects. I have enjoyed having done those projects, though not so much, solving the problems involved in doing them!

Cruising is (a) not for everyone; (b) can be terribly frustrating for those who are inadequately prepared; and can also be terribly rewarding. How you guys are personally prepared for it is key.

Ann

PS. It might be better if you asked specific questions. I appreciate that you don't want to guide the flow of information, but buddy, you picked a huge question to answer![/QUOTE]

[JPA Cate]

Hey, thanks Bulawayo, but I left out the dodger, had to add that later!

A.

[Bulawayo]

We keep a couple of all plastic (no rust) carpenters horses aboard. Under a couple of berths we have lengths of marine ply. These are meant to serve for emergencies / if we blow a window, or to jury rig a rudder or for patching. Anyway, you get the drift. These long lengths of ply have been set up on the horses more times than I care to remember as beach tables - for every use you can think off including sewing and as a workshop. The plastic horses are rated at 200kgs each yet are plenty strong enough & weigh next to nothing.

QUOTE=TrentePieds;2325920]Quote: "... and I have made everything from mainsail covers, lee cloths, weather cloths,..."

A prosaic questioon, Ann: What do you use for a cutting table when you do stuff like mainsl covers?

And for the OP: "Stuff" ads up! A decent pair of shears for canvas work is a hunnertandfifty bux. You can't save money without spending money. AS someone said: if you buy "of the shelf" at a boat show, you'll be spending as much again on fitting out before you'll be halfway satisfied with your ship.

TrentePieds[/QUOTE]

[silversailor]

Suggest you also look at a Hanse. Competes very favorably with all the brands you mentioned in both price and quality. I expect its also quicker than most and easier to handle.

[TrentePieds]

Thanx Bulawayo. Worth for newbs to pay attention to. :-)

Your boat is five and forty feet, I think, and Jim and Ann's is five and fifty. Ours is only thirty. That makes a difference in terms of room for "stuff" :-).

Where you and the Cates sail, this sort of thing is much more important than where I sail. In the Salish Sea you are never more that a few hours from a civilized harbour and certainly never more than a few days from home berth even with a duff engine. In consequence I have a hard time imagining any emergent condition that I couldn't cope with and/or tolerate long enough to get to repair facilities or even to my shore base.

My hat is off to all of you who have the wit and experience to be truly self-sufficient :-)

TrentePieds

[Sailorbob8599]

Wow! There really is no easy or straight answer to the OP's question as there are so many variables.
There is some excellent advice here from those that really know what they're talking about. The term "Sail away" is misleading because it all depends on where you are sailing from and to.
Like any other new endeavour, one starts slowly and continues to add to past experiences as to exactly what is needed for the next adventure.
If one accepts the $ figures mentioned as to what one should expect, i would imagine it will scare many folk from ever buying a boat but, one must look upon sailing as a 'lifestyle' ... what does it cost to belong to a Golf or Tennis Club? or any other sport for that matter. How much money do collector car buffs spend on their hobby? Now that almost compares to owning a boat ... LoL.
As for spares, some of us will agree you can never have enough but, quite often, you will never have the spare part for whatever fails ... LoL

I'm about to put my boat on the market ... I was thinking of describing it as a "sail away" !!! LoL.
P.S. Ann Cate wrote a very comprehensive and time consuming response for the OP. I applaud her for her highly commendable efforts. Others have written excellent comments too. Any would be purchaser of a boat, new or used, would do well to consider the various opinions given in this thread.
I think the short answer to the OP question is ... you NEVER have enough 'stuff'