Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2010, 19:24   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
I have to presume that you do not have insurance on your boat if you are planing to install a permanent gasoline storage tank inside your sailboat.
- - If you do have any form of insurance you had better consult with the insurance company before you undertake to install that gasoline tank. You might find that you will not have insurance coverage anymore after you install the gasoline storage tank inside the boat at worst or a huge increase in premiums at best.
__________________

__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2010, 20:18   #17
Registered User
 
OrangeCrush's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Boat: Shannon Pilothouse 38
Posts: 614
You are correct; my boat is not insured. Is there something inherently dangerous about permanent gas tanks? I am thinking of installing one only in an attempt to be as safe as possible.
__________________

__________________
OrangeCrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2010, 20:40   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Yes - the fumes and pressure inside the tank builds as the sun heats the boat. When new the vents work fine and everything is kosher. After a while corrosion and use starts to eat away at the parts and unless properly maintained, you get gas fumes inside the boat. Then "boom." It happens often enough that premiums for gasoline powered vessels are significantly higher than diesel powered.
- - But all of that is dependent upon the normal human tendency to "not maintain and inspect/service" your systems. For some idiotic reason fuel tank vent makers use "white metal" to make the vents which does not take long in a salt water environment to corrode and choke off.
- - At least with deck mounted tanks any spillage is open to atmosphere and evaporates. In a collision event the deck mounted tanks fly off the vessel as opposed to rupturing and spilling gasoline into the interior of the boat. Of course the bad stuff never happens unless you are on board, down below sleeping and because it is cold or raining you have the hatches and vents closed. Then you light your kerosene lantern to see something . . .
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2010, 21:40   #19
HiZ
Registered User
 
HiZ's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oshkosh WI
Boat: Reinell 26' - SeaFlight 12.5 - Switzer 17ss - 62 Cruisers Lapstrake - 17' SeaSprite
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
I don't think I have any room for teak boxes on my foredeck, and since I won't always need the extra cans I am hesitant to install those 'pin rails' as you described. Seems like a lot of trouble for something that is only slightly more convenient than just lashing them down, unless I am not picturing them right.

I am imagining that a fuel hose would be too long if I ran it all the way to the bottom of the cockpit locker, but transferring fuel to the smaller, closer tank could get messy. Maybe some sort of foot-pump and hose that I could use to fill either the working (6-gal) tank or the dinghy motor tank as necessary? Is that realistic?

Your advice is greatly appreciated!

You are making it too complicated!
Here is what you need and this will work perfectly!
I do a ton of work on powerboats and am a big powerboater myself.
You need:
1-Tank to fit space (in locker, below deck, etc.)
That will be your only and primary tank.
2-access to the transom from the tank. (may limit locations)
3-Vent line with thru hull
4-Fill Hull fitting with Line to tank
5-Line out transom to Outboard power.

3 things you need. Filler line, vent line, fuel line.

So, installation.
Put your tank in the location, above water line, below doesn't matter.
check spot for your fill line as this hose is large diameter and will not "bend" easily.
Cut filler Thru hull hole, install, connect hose from filler to tank.
Next, check a spot on the outside of the hull for your vent.
Drill hole, install thru hull, install vent line.
****you can Now Fill your tank and vent the fumes. Just like a power boat.

Next we have to supply the fuel.

This you can do a few ways;

1-run line thru a thru hull Clam cover with the ball on the outside to prime. NOT me

I would put a line from the tank to the rear transom and install a quick connect right in the transom.
SO, just a line from the tank to the transom with quick connect.
Then all you have to do is Connect your current fuel line with primer ball to the transom quick connect and to the engine, prime, start!

DONE!

email or PM if you have questions or concerns.

Thankd
__________________
HiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2010, 21:57   #20
HiZ
Registered User
 
HiZ's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oshkosh WI
Boat: Reinell 26' - SeaFlight 12.5 - Switzer 17ss - 62 Cruisers Lapstrake - 17' SeaSprite
Posts: 25
Yeah, here is an idea!
You should make sure to put the tank in an area that you can secure it to well!
That is a bunch of weight
You can also use a closed cell foam pad, or rubber mat to put it on! However it is most likely overkill.
And as far as getting insurance.
well I have a $100 dollar deduct on my offshore and it has a self contained time bomb 143 gallon FUME blowing, vapor expanding tank in it.

Premium $234 year

So, don't worry. They insure powerboats.
Every powerboat has a fuel tank to.
And as far as time goes.

BE sure that your hoses are rated for Alcohol (ethanol) and you are golden!
Run a line to the transom, thru hull to the back with quick connect. and connect your line you currently use. You can even make that shorter now that you won't have to dip into the bottom.
And on time. Grandfather has a 72 Carver, Original vent, tank, lines, etc.
And well it has yet to blow up.
Blue water, make sure it is all SS@!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0411001903.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	449.7 KB
ID:	15980   Click image for larger version

Name:	securedownload.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	278.4 KB
ID:	15981  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC01758.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	409.1 KB
ID:	15982   Click image for larger version

Name:	P7113029.jpg
Views:	199
Size:	343.4 KB
ID:	15983  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5733 006.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	404.9 KB
ID:	15985   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG00028-20100219-1112a.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	407.8 KB
ID:	15986  

Click image for larger version

Name:	P8092284.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	418.0 KB
ID:	15987   Click image for larger version

Name:	0915091346b.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	441.5 KB
ID:	15988  

__________________
HiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2010, 22:06   #21
HiZ
Registered User
 
HiZ's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oshkosh WI
Boat: Reinell 26' - SeaFlight 12.5 - Switzer 17ss - 62 Cruisers Lapstrake - 17' SeaSprite
Posts: 25
By the way my lady's tanks are original and not vented, but coast guard approved!
__________________
HiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2010, 22:17   #22
HiZ
Registered User
 
HiZ's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oshkosh WI
Boat: Reinell 26' - SeaFlight 12.5 - Switzer 17ss - 62 Cruisers Lapstrake - 17' SeaSprite
Posts: 25
Oh, and that tank you are looking at should be fine with "sloshing" it also has a sender for a gauge!

Handy little guy right there
__________________
HiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 17:11   #23
HiZ
Registered User
 
HiZ's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oshkosh WI
Boat: Reinell 26' - SeaFlight 12.5 - Switzer 17ss - 62 Cruisers Lapstrake - 17' SeaSprite
Posts: 25
By the way: coast guard regs state that all portable/loose fuel tanks Must be secured. In order to prevent them from becoming airborn in the even of an impact! And if you hit something hard enough that your 6 gal tank goes flying out of the boat. You have Much bigger issues than fuel liquid and vapors!
__________________
HiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2010, 15:00   #24
Registered User
 
OrangeCrush's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Boat: Shannon Pilothouse 38
Posts: 614
Hello again,

I ended up installing a 27-gallon tank in the locker area directly under the cockpit sole. I made a wooden cradle to seat it (allowing for some expansion) and I pinned it down with heavy shock cord tied to cleats on the plywood ribs in there. I hooked up the fill, fuel and vent lines and it is working great! I can even use the fuel hose to pump gas out of the big tank into the dinghy motor tank where it sits on its mount.

One more step towards doing some big things with my little boat! Thanks for the help, everyone.
__________________
OrangeCrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2010, 15:15   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
If you installed a gasoline tank under the deck (inside the boat versus on-deck storage) you might best review the USCG legal requirements for venting, blowers and operation of internal gasoline tanks. Also if the boat is insured you probably can stop making premium payments as the insurance company will not pay off on any boat loss/damage unless you declared the installation and had it marine survey approved.
- - If you are un-insured and are a really good swimmer, ignore all the above.
__________________
osirissail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2010, 16:07   #26
Moderator
 
Adelie's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 4,637
HiZ covers it pretty well. The only thing I would add is to put the vent outside the cockpit which would act as a sump for the vapors to build up in, maybe spilling into the cabin. I would vent to the outside of a cockpit coaming or into the motor well.

For a 26' 5400# boat economy cruise will be 4-5kt at about 4hp and doing so will save 1/4-1/3 the fuel per mile.

I don't know if it's in the budget but a 4-stroke would approximately double your gas milage. 8hp would probably be as much as you can use motoring into waves, 10hp at the very most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiZ View Post
You are making it too complicated!
Here is what you need and this will work perfectly!
I do a ton of work on powerboats and am a big powerboater myself.
You need:
1-Tank to fit space (in locker, below deck, etc.)
That will be your only and primary tank.
2-access to the transom from the tank. (may limit locations)
3-Vent line with thru hull
4-Fill Hull fitting with Line to tank
5-Line out transom to Outboard power.

3 things you need. Filler line, vent line, fuel line.

So, installation.
Put your tank in the location, above water line, below doesn't matter.
check spot for your fill line as this hose is large diameter and will not "bend" easily.
Cut filler Thru hull hole, install, connect hose from filler to tank.
Next, check a spot on the outside of the hull for your vent.
Drill hole, install thru hull, install vent line.
****you can Now Fill your tank and vent the fumes. Just like a power boat.

Next we have to supply the fuel.

This you can do a few ways;

1-run line thru a thru hull Clam cover with the ball on the outside to prime. NOT me

I would put a line from the tank to the rear transom and install a quick connect right in the transom.
SO, just a line from the tank to the transom with quick connect.
Then all you have to do is Connect your current fuel line with primer ball to the transom quick connect and to the engine, prime, start!

DONE!

email or PM if you have questions or concerns.

Thankd
__________________
Adelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2010, 00:55   #27
HiZ
Registered User
 
HiZ's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oshkosh WI
Boat: Reinell 26' - SeaFlight 12.5 - Switzer 17ss - 62 Cruisers Lapstrake - 17' SeaSprite
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
Hello again,

I ended up installing a 27-gallon tank in the locker area directly under the cockpit sole. I made a wooden cradle to seat it (allowing for some expansion) and I pinned it down with heavy shock cord tied to cleats on the plywood ribs in there. I hooked up the fill, fuel and vent lines and it is working great! I can even use the fuel hose to pump gas out of the big tank into the dinghy motor tank where it sits on its mount.

One more step towards doing some big things with my little boat! Thanks for the help, everyone.

You are Welcome!

Did you get the Gauge hooked up?

Hey send us all pics of the boat when it Blows up!
__________________
www.widmermarine.com
HiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2010, 01:00   #28
HiZ
Registered User
 
HiZ's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oshkosh WI
Boat: Reinell 26' - SeaFlight 12.5 - Switzer 17ss - 62 Cruisers Lapstrake - 17' SeaSprite
Posts: 25
By the way:

I can help in all listed items above

As I am a Certified Surveyor by the United States Power Squadron
I am a fully licensed Insurance agent - with coverage in your state
I do consultant work for Mercury Marine
And I have a camera

So, I could fly out, install said gauge, survey the boat, write your poilicy, take a picture, and go on the water: all in one day! Whew
__________________
www.widmermarine.com
HiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2010, 01:06   #29
HiZ
Registered User
 
HiZ's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Oshkosh WI
Boat: Reinell 26' - SeaFlight 12.5 - Switzer 17ss - 62 Cruisers Lapstrake - 17' SeaSprite
Posts: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush View Post
Hello again,

I ended up installing a 27-gallon tank in the locker area directly under the cockpit sole. ?

27 gallons, you should be good for the season, or well your trip!
When are you leaving?
__________________
www.widmermarine.com
HiZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2010, 01:33   #30
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
If you installed a gasoline tank under the deck (inside the boat versus on-deck storage) you might best review the USCG legal requirements for venting, blowers and operation of internal gasoline tanks. Also if the boat is insured you probably can stop making premium payments as the insurance company will not pay off on any boat loss/damage unless you declared the installation and had it marine survey approved.
- - If you are un-insured and are a really good swimmer, ignore all the above.
So far I've found that there are only rules on the installation of fuel tanks for gasoline inboard engines. Outboards are not included in this section.

Justia :: 33 C.F.R. Subpart J—Fuel Systems

183.501 Applicability.
(a) This subpart applies to all boats that have gasoline engines, except outboard engines, for electrical generation, mechanical power, or propulsion.
__________________

__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
You Know Your Boat Is too Small when . . . mickmul Health, Safety & Related Gear 18 06-05-2010 17:45
Small, Approved Gas Can for Long-Term Storage On Board Dinghy? deano Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 2 11-12-2009 10:49
Boat Storage in CA miketmbt Dollars & Cents 0 01-10-2009 13:50
Safe Place in Brazil to Leave Boat foolishsailor Atlantic & the Caribbean 2 09-09-2007 02:37
safe pleace leave the boat unattended phorvati Atlantic & the Caribbean 11 05-02-2007 23:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.