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Old 24-05-2009, 16:08   #16
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Here is a comment on this sinking from a mate in Fiji. It appears there was some question raised about it, as in was it a legit accident, it appears it very much was.

Condolences to the crew for their lose. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

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OK, the crew from Elusive are safely ensconced in a Fiji hotel now. I had a beer last night with the skipper of Scarlett O'hara who rescued them. He is a registered boat surveyor and actually boarded Elusive and dived underneath to try and save it. It appears to him there was a hull/keel failure amidships. The boat had been pounding quite a bit and the steering then jammed but no water was coming from aft. They weren't actually buddy boating but were in the vicinity because they had started heading SW to avoid a low pressure system otherwise they wouldn't have been anywhere near enough to get them off before sinking. The boat was insured for considerably less than the asking sale price and they had spent some more money on it as they decided to do another season and then try to sell in Australia where they were able to get duty concessions. According to John from Scarlett O'hara they would have to be very professional actors to fake the emotion they showed as they watched there home sink.
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Old 24-05-2009, 18:34   #17
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what's that tell you about buddy boating?

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Their buddy boat was near enough to get to them within half an hour of their mayday, and they abandoned about a half hour after that.
sometimes it's nice to have a bud.
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Old 24-05-2009, 23:26   #18
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Or it could have pulled-up the mounting platform causing a delamination in the hull.
Hey! Thanks for that. That was something I over looked when installing my system. Time for a little more engineering!
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Old 25-05-2009, 21:17   #19
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How dare you plagerise me GMac (ps should be ordering the solid gold manson soon). I caught up with Steve, the skipper of Elusive, yesterday in Denarau. 20/20 hindsight after the event he is positive is was hull to keel failure. He's gutted about the whole thing but can at least talk about it now. Owner's opinion + qualified surveyor's opinion = pretty much indisputable fact.
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Old 26-05-2009, 01:02   #20
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How dare you plagerise me GMac
Quoted big fella and only because you're too slow. Island time is really kicking in for you isn't it Yes, I'm jealous.

Does Steve have any theory as to why it may have failed? And we are obviously only assuming a failure even though it certianly appears that way.

You mentioned John on Scarlett O'Hara mentioned pounding. Anything else been mentioned? One would hope we could all pound away without our keels falling off.
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Old 26-05-2009, 10:01   #21
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While it's sad to hear stuff like this, it makes me a bit happier that the only way Oh Joy's keel is coming off is if I lose the entire bottom of the hull.
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Old 26-05-2009, 17:13   #22
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You mentioned John on Scarlett O'Hara mentioned pounding. Anything else been mentioned? One would hope we could all pound away without our keels falling off.
They said the pounding hadn't been excessive but was the only contributing factor they could think of given the J44's propensity for keel problems. It was more of a beam pounding than close hauled so lots of lateral strain on the keel.
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Old 26-05-2009, 17:21   #23
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.... given the J44's propensity for keel problems.....
What other J/44's have lost their keels or come close?

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Old 26-05-2009, 17:52   #24
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Without looking at the boat it will be tough to tell what happened. But, it is possible that the rig could have worked its way through the bottom of boat if the boat has been sailed more then a few miles. Try to imagine the load that is placed on the floor when you crank the bow out of the rig with the runners. The headstay, backstay, and caps don't get longer, the rig trys to go through the bottom of the boat. I've seen more then one boat that has been broken in this way including some fairly new expensive boats.

When you lift your boat take a good look in front of the keel.
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Old 26-05-2009, 17:52   #25
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I've only heard it anecdotally, apparently there have been others.
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Old 26-05-2009, 18:09   #26
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I've only heard it anecdotally, apparently there have been others.
I certainly appreciate the info you shared from the owner. Backing up your 'J/44 propensity to have keel problems" with apparently there are other anecdotes doesn't add much to the discussion. It just ends up with typical internet unsubstantiated rumors that people like to use as if they are fact..

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Old 26-05-2009, 18:41   #27
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I should have just said J boats, not specifically J44s. Google J+Boat+Keel+Problems. Seems their keels like to be closer to the bottom than most.
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Old 26-05-2009, 18:51   #28
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I should have just said J boats, not specifically J44s. Google J+Boat+Keel+Problems. Seems their keels like to be closer to the bottom than most.
Given the 10's of thousands of J-boats that mostly live a life of being raced hard, some for 25+ years, the number of keel issues is actually very low. And there is nothing in your Google search that implies J/44's were susceptible. Keels should not fall out of boats. J-boat generally builds a solid boat. What happened to Illusive is certainly disturbing, especially I bet if you own a J/44. But trying to explain what happened by taking side swipes at J/Boat keels doesn't add to the understanding of what really happened or how to prevent it.

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Old 26-05-2009, 19:19   #29
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Results for J+Boat+Keel+Problem 460 thousand. Replace the first word with Beneteau =60 thousand. Farr =60 thousand. Hereshoff =14 thousand. Cavalier =96 thousand. Gotta be a reason for that. A little bit sensitive to claim I took a sideswipe.
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Old 26-05-2009, 19:27   #30
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Results for J+Boat+Keel+Problem 460 thousand. Replace the first word with Beneteau =60 thousand. Farr =60 thousand. Hereshoff =14 thousand. Cavalier =96 thousand. Gotta be a reason for that. A little bit sensitive to claim I took a sideswipe.
Hay, I didn't realize you were using such well researched evidence -- the number of hits on Google. I just wanted some confidence that your conclusions were based on real facts. Now I'll feel confident quoting these for others. Are you worried about your boat with 61 thousand hits on Encapsulated+Keel+Problems?

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