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Old 24-12-2018, 01:31   #46
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

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If you don’t understand wet cores, I suggest you start with a smaller boat.

I understand what wet cores are, what I want to know is techniques to detect it, beyond tap testing. I have used composite quite a bit. We use polyester on non structural repairs like fairings and epoxy on structural repairs, but I have never had my repairs spend their life in salty water.
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Old 24-12-2018, 01:37   #47
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

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I understand what wet cores are, what I want to know is techniques to detect it, beyond tap testing. I have used composite quite a bit. We use polyester on non structural repairs like fairings and epoxy on structural repairs, but I have never had my repairs spend their life in salty water.
Tapping with a plastic hammer is pretty effective. A moisture meter can help confirm. Drill a hole and pull out wet core.
When old teak decks are shot you can bet that some of those 10,000 screws leak. Chainplates, stanchions, etc all are likely spots where the core is wet or rotted.
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Old 24-12-2018, 01:54   #48
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

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When old teak decks are shot you can bet that some of those 10,000 screws leak. Chainplates, stanchions, etc all are likely spots where the core is wet or rotted.

OK NOW I understand perfectly, I thought teak decks on glass boats were thin strips of about 3mm and they were glued on. If every board is screwed down and penetrating the gel coat then its absolutely 100% that there is moisture ingress into the core and its rooted. This is about moisture from above, not below.


I think I would rather take my chances on a steel hull, even if its more time consuming on an ongoing basis. I never liked composite aircraft I much prefer aluminium and I think my preference for a steel boat is the right one.


I have to go to the area where this boat is located later this week anyway and I might take a look at this boat simply for the exercise of learning. Im just keen to get myself into some engineering I can do for myself instead of the soul destroying thankless work I have done for others for so many years.



Keep the body blows coming people


I love the pain.....
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Old 24-12-2018, 02:00   #49
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

Most of those boats are built with wood or balsa cored decks, it helps stiffness.

The deck is screwed into the top laminate, it is not a gel coat, and the screw ends sit in the core, so as the deck ages water wicks into the core, turning it to compost.

There are synthetic cores, but old Taiwanese boats used ply or balsa as a core, although I have heard of some that used scrunched up newspaper...

I have even repaired a deck where the teak was stapled and glued on, and the staples later removed, water still wicked through the old staple holes.
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Old 24-12-2018, 02:05   #50
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

OK given the age I assumed that these boats were all solid laminate and maybe had cores in the bulkheads, if they have balsa core in the deck even a slight amount of water in will wick and destroy it, rapidly.
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Old 24-12-2018, 02:25   #51
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

You cut off the teak deck, then the top laminate over the wet areas.
Clean out the wet core, epoxy in new core, then replace the top laminate.
Then seal the deck and all penetrations.
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Old 24-12-2018, 09:36   #52
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

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OK NOW I understand perfectly, I thought teak decks on glass boats were thin strips of about 3mm and they were glued on. If every board is screwed down and penetrating the gel coat then its absolutely 100% that there is moisture ingress into the core and its rooted. This is about moisture from above, not below.


I think I would rather take my chances on a steel hull, even if its more time consuming on an ongoing basis. I never liked composite aircraft I much prefer aluminium and I think my preference for a steel boat is the right one.


I have to go to the area where this boat is located later this week anyway and I might take a look at this boat simply for the exercise of learning. Im just keen to get myself into some engineering I can do for myself instead of the soul destroying thankless work I have done for others for so many years.



Keep the body blows coming people


I love the pain.....
Moody teak decks are glued down I believe. We found a boat without teak decks ourselves, as Tashing screwed them down I'm pretty sure.
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Old 24-12-2018, 09:49   #53
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

It depends on what you want. In this case you want to make sure the hull is not cored and sound and the Lehman is serviceable.
Others have chimed in and they are correct, you could easily sink 100k USD into it if the hull and engine are sound. A big boat in poor condition like that can be too much for many people. You need to ask yourself if you want to be sailing or a boat worker. It can drive you crazy for sure. A 40 footer in good shape may be a better thing and get you sailing faster.
Bob Perry is a good guy and will likely share his thoughts. he will likely know which Taiwan yard built the boat.
I have found the Taiwanese bronze fittings, like seacocks, to be great. The stainless, generally ok but not great. There's a ton of rust by the prop shaft etc in your picture and it's hard to figure where that came from...? It may be the rudder shaft rusting from poor stainless and running down there while stored so long. You can plan on removing that rudder, it is undoubtedly wet inside, splitting it apart and taking the metalwork/shaft out, drying the core and replacing all the metal.
One plus is the deck is not teak, although it may have been at one time. The cabin top is overlaid teak. It may or may not be wet inside the core. Much of this may depend on where it was built. Some yards like those that built the Hans Christian, Passport and the Baba boats are impeccable and do core work that avoids water migration. Other yards like Formosa and Ta Chaio (CT) do have some big core issues.
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Old 24-12-2018, 10:00   #54
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

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Originally Posted by Metal Boat View Post
I understand what wet cores are, what I want to know is techniques to detect it, beyond tap testing. I have used composite quite a bit. We use polyester on non structural repairs like fairings and epoxy on structural repairs, but I have never had my repairs spend their life in salty water.
One way I found the extent of wet deck core on the boat pictured in my avatar was by using a small drill from inside the boat. Drill a hole through the internal layer of glass (like inside a closet overhead) remove the wood debris from the twist in the drill bit, squeeze it between your forefinger and thumb. If wet, water will actually come out when squeezed. If very wet water will drip out the hole you drilled!
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Old 24-12-2018, 10:12   #55
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

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Comparing this boat to an aircraft restoration would be valid if the aircraft involved was a Liberator you had found in the jungles of New Guinea.....

The 'ask' on these boats in reasonable order seems to be about $A70,000.....

This boat does not have value... well yes it does.... negative value..... it will cost the present owners money to have it hauled away.....
I have laughed all the way thru this, El P has nailed this, I think this guy is pulling everybodys leg
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Old 24-12-2018, 16:23   #56
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

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Indeed I understand perfectly, thats why I want to look very carefully at the boat and how much work is involved. The price is reasonable 30,000 AUD but I would love for others to chime in with ball park figures. I am happy to do all the work myself, I am honestly looking forward to it. There is much joy in engineering, but what I dont want to do is structural hull work (within reason some fibreglass work is fine, but not chopping out ballast etc). All the rest will be good solid fun and I have two boys to train as well. I expect this boat will need upwards of 150,000 to 200,000 to fix. I estimate its maximum value in this market in immaculate condtion to be 100,000 AUD. But again much appreciated for the words of caution Dale.
Your estimate of what it will take to refit this vessel seems realistic, and this comes from someone who has done exactly what you are proposing on a little bigger scale.

That said, there are so many fine boats available if you have $200,000 to spend, this wouldn't be my first choice.
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Old 24-12-2018, 16:35   #57
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

I had a 2001 Bob Perry designed Tayana 48 for a circumnavigation. Great design and we loved the boat. Was everything a blue water cruiser should be. We bought her in 2011 in immaculate condition, and she remained that way as we looked after her. So Bob Perry design, yes. But a hulk like this one No , No , No! Please. Get a good one and spend your time actually sailing whilst using your engineering skills keeping her like that and upgrading her. You will get endless enjoyment and satisfaction - as we did.
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Old 25-12-2018, 06:52   #58
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

Get a good , very good survey . Use it as a pattern of what to fix . ! She has great bones,
I can see your vision. It will take years and tons of money !
Dont spend so much time out of the water ( years) that you never get a chance to SAIL her.
Even a 5 hour sail will show you what she needs and what you need.
Im more about give her what she needs and she will will make you proud . And that Perry design will show you what she knows how to do , SAIL ! Its a ADVENTURE !
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Old 25-12-2018, 12:13   #59
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

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... make sure the hull is not cored and sound and the Lehman is serviceable. ...
What is a Lehman? (And yep I did check google and it wasn't any help) Thanks
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Old 25-12-2018, 12:25   #60
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Re: Robert Perry 47 Taiwanese Built

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What is a Lehman? (And yep I did check google and it wasn't any help) Thanks
It has a Lehman diesel doesn't it? Great engines.
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