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Old 28-08-2012, 13:20   #1
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Rigging / Engine Age

I am looking at a late 70's 42 foot ketch rig. Boat is well built and looks to be in great shape. Has the original rigging and engine though, which is causing me concern. Major parts for the engine are highly difficult to come by. prior owner is claiming less than 1000 hours on the engine and believes them to be closer to just 500.

Would a good standard survey be able to determine the exact conditions of each of these items, or would I need separate engine and rigging surveys as well? I have read rigging over ten years is bad, but is it possible, or seen at times to find a boat that has lighter usage and still have 30 year old rigging that is in good shape ?

Everything else in the boat looks great, But I would have to sail her home 500 miles and that is the wrong time to discover there is a problem. After I get her home it will be light cruising in the Pamlico.
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Old 28-08-2012, 13:24   #2
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Re: Rigging / engine age

I would vote for a separate survey for the engine. Diesel engines are tough and can run for years and years with proper maintenance. (my dad had a tractor on our farm that had over 45 years of regular use- diesels are really tough)

I would not survey the rigging, I would just know I need to replace it. It could be in okay shape but most likely not. rather than spend money trying to determine if you have a one in a million boat with 30 year old rigging in good shape, just spend the money on rerigging it.
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Old 28-08-2012, 13:31   #3
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Re: Rigging / engine age

30 year old rigging - thats called a "re-rig required" on the buyers assessment. Engine depends on maintenance but if they've let the rig go for that long i wouldnt assume they've been diligent about maintenance on the engine.
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Old 28-08-2012, 13:32   #4
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The math on the engine hours is suspect a slight concern. Assuming the boat is a 1979 model; 1000 hours over 33 years is 30 hours per year. That would assume very marginal use of the boat.

Perhaps it is my doubting nature and distrust of sellers...

Bill
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Old 28-08-2012, 13:34   #5
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Oh and +1 for the engine survey
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Old 28-08-2012, 13:43   #6
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Re: Rigging / engine age

I would question the 1000 hours on the engine. I would also have a separate survey on it to see what expense I might be getting into. I agree on the rigging, it should be replaced. Although before I set out I would climb the masts and take a piece of cotton (cotton ball) and run it down all of the rigging. If it snags on anything that means it is starting to fray. I would want to know that before I set out on a 500 mile trip. In any case, I would not push on the trip until the rigging was replaced. My friend just lost the top 23 feet of a 63 foot mast due to a cable breaking on his way from the States to Grenada.
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Old 28-08-2012, 13:45   #7
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Re: Rigging / engine age

I have had recommendations from people that I trust professionally that it is actually better to have hours on a older diesel engine rather than few hours and no work. I bought a ten year old boat that had under 300 hours on the engine, we have had no problems. I replaced the water pump, exhaust hose and a few fittings that were corroded. I would strongly suggest taking a real good look at the engine before heading out in the wild blue yonder.

Doing a rig survey before heading out is a very good idea as well. I had a reputable surveyor do a pre-purchase survey on our boat and he missed a lot. I try and go up the mast and take a look at the rigging at least every two months or so when we are out cruising.

Check out the attached picture of our old chainplate. See the cracks and corrosion?

What I like to do is have as many (knowledgable) people as possible look at my boat for problems. When there is a consensus on how to fix the problem I have a lot more confidence in how to go about it.

Before we left to go cruising we did some upgrades to our boat. Check out our blog for some detailed descriptions PacificSailors.com
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Old 28-08-2012, 13:48   #8
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Re: Rigging / engine age

I think all engine survey will consist of would be compression test and oil analysis. If it starts easy, no smoke of any color and accelerates and does not over heat I would call it good. ( see Captain Ron)

Rigging, that should be surveyed. You need to know where to inspect and look for hairline cracks in fittings.
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Old 28-08-2012, 13:48   #9
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Re: Rigging / engine age

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Originally Posted by landonshaw View Post
I would question the 1000 hours on the engine. I would also have a separate survey on it to see what expense I might be getting into. I agree on the rigging, it should be replaced. Although before I set out I would climb the masts and take a piece of cotton (cotton ball) and run it down all of the rigging. If it snags on anything that means it is starting to fray. I would want to know that before I set out on a 500 mile trip. In any case, I would not push on the trip until the rigging was replaced. My friend just lost the top 23 feet of a 63 foot mast due to a cable breaking on his way from the States to Grenada.
piece of cotton isnt going to tell you much about the inevitable cavitation corrosion in a 30 year old rig
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Old 28-08-2012, 14:05   #10
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Re: Rigging / engine age

Why would you waste the money on a rig survey? 30 year old rigging needs to be replaced. Period. If you were talking 15 years with light use- maybe but to me it sounds like you will be spending money on a survey that will tell you what you already know- 30 year old rigging should be replaced.
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Old 28-08-2012, 14:19   #11
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Re: Rigging / engine age

I agree with you 100% Mimsy, 30 year old rigging needs to be replaced, however sounds like sunblock would like to bring the boat home before replacing the rig... Be a very good idea to look at the rigging to see if that is possible.
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Old 28-08-2012, 14:19   #12
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Re: Rigging / engine age

Thanks Guys for all the helpful info. I am sure the rigging needs to be replaced, I guess my thought is if its in ok shape, could I get her home and then take my time do the re rig myself. Having to pay a yard to do it would be a bit more costly, but I am already looking for estimates in the Boston area.

Comments have put my mind at ease somewhat, 90% of these boats I see still have the original westerbeke, so it must be well built.
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Old 28-08-2012, 14:20   #13
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Re: Rigging / engine age

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Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
Why would you waste the money on a rig survey? 30 year old rigging needs to be replaced. Period. If you were talking 15 years with light use- maybe but to me it sounds like you will be spending money on a survey that will tell you what you already know- 30 year old rigging should be replaced.
dont sugar coat it, tell it like it is...
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Old 28-08-2012, 14:21   #14
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Re: Rigging / engine age

+ 100 On Mimsy 30 yr old rigging is junk
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Old 28-08-2012, 14:21   #15
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Re: Rigging / engine age

Rigging deteriorates from corrosion which isa function of age. I'd change it out, including the chain plates before heading out. For one thing it's doubtful if you'll be able to get insurance on the rig without a survey and I doubt any rigger would pass 30 year old rigging.

As far as the engine,ic it starts instantly when cold, doesn't overheat under load, and passes an oil analysis, it should be good to go. Might want to check the availability and colst off the heat exchanger as that is the part most affected by salt water.
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