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Old 03-12-2015, 22:23   #1
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Reworking a dream

For several years I have been landlocked and dreaming and working on choosing the right boat and obtain skills and knowledge to set off on our dream of cruising to far off and interesting places. The dream was almost in reach as we went and chose a specific boat but couldn't make the numbers work with my husbands work suddenly taking a huge downturn and a good chunk of our investments in that. More importantly my health took a huge turn for the worse and even though I am back to daily function the realistic limit of being off shore would be for a week not a month. And then the destination would either have to have good health care or a good airport. So in essence that limits me to costal cruising and possibly the Caribbean. Which isn't bad by any means and I am glad that I can do it at all!

The thing is that the boat we have chosen is overkill for the kind of sailing that we are choosing to do. We don't need a blue water cruiser, I guess, or the price tag, but like the styling and finish of that kind of boat. The education part of the time I have spent will still be infinitely useful. Maybe look for something older along the same lines. The boat we had chosen was a 2006 Passport 515. So smaller and of good quality would work but I am still thinking in the 45 to 47 foot range. The smaller passports are equally as expensive. There is one for sale that is not but will probably sell before we can scrape the money together. I looked at some much smaller and older bristols and really liked them but they would be a hard sell to my other half who is trying to keep my original dream alive.


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Old 03-12-2015, 22:54   #2
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Re: Reworking a dream

I am not really sure if you are asking a question or wanting opinions. But you say your husband is trying to keep your dream alive...but is your dream to cruise or to own a particular boat?

Many, many people have cruised quite happily on much smaller boats and with much smaller budgets. Much smaller. They do it by keeping their goals front and center and not compromising on their real intention, but accepting compromise in the trappings of their life style choices. I.e. a smaller, less Sexy boat.

Don't forget, no matter what you spend on a boat, you cruise to the same shores as everyone else. The beer tastes the same.

As for refine cruising grounds, just keep your goals here open ended. Perhaps for now, the Caribbean makes the most sense. But as you regain strength you may feel up to more distant shores. No need to decide anything beyond "right now". Right now is good enough.
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Old 03-12-2015, 23:19   #3
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Re: Reworking a dream

Cruising is as much "wherever you go there you are" an attitude as anything else.

There's little difference between money, health, and other circumstances changing as there is in the changes in the weather, political climate, or boating disaster while underway--you evaluate what you've got to work with and continue on with an evolution of the elements that must change to assure your success.

If your goal was to simply to travel the world, but you weren't already a sailor and the sailing isn't a driver for you, it may be better to do your travels via other means than crossing oceans with a sailboat. If you're a sailor and your goal was to extend that sailing to crossing oceans, then finding ways to do it (smaller, cheaper, or different boat to meet physical and money constraints) have to come up.

If time isn't an issue--continuing to work, save, and regain health, then those are options. If your health will continue to deteriorate and actually sailing is a goal, then definitely shifting into a different boat is realistic so you can get going now, not later.

Wherever you go, there you are--and yes the dream is a constantly changing thing. Ours went from sailing a small, modern, boat around the Caribbean to sailing a our Pre-WWII cruising boat in high latitudes. Why? Because WE changed over the years that we had the dream and did the planning (23 years before we sold the house and bought the boat in 2006).

It continues to change as we live our dream and take ownership of it. There's a given that other folks expect you to do certain things if you're sailing/cruising/livingaboard etc--skip all that and think about YOU and your husband. It's all about you and your partner--so whatever works for both of YOU is what you should be thinking about. If your partner is like the energizer bunny still working hard to achieve something that you realize is going to be too "something" (fill in the blank...expensive, small, big, hard-to-function-on-because-of-your-health...) then you do need to talk with him about the hard facts so you both can move forward with the shared "new" twist on the old dream.

Our dream is alive--and that mean it's changing all the time, it is not static it is not fixed, it continues to change and to be rewarding for us. I hope that yours is the same for you.

Best of luck in whatever you do,
Brenda
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Old 03-12-2015, 23:33   #4
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Re: Reworking a dream

Sea dreaming...you make a good point that the shoreline still looks the same and the beer still tastes the same ;-)




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Old 03-12-2015, 23:38   #5
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Re: Reworking a dream

Quote:
Originally Posted by brookiesailor View Post
For several years I have been landlocked and dreaming
>|<
but I am still thinking in the 45 to 47 foot range.
>|<
I looked at some much smaller and older bristols and really liked them but they would be a hard sell to my other half who is trying to keep my original dream alive.
You have been landlocked, you have been dreaming, you selected "the right" (?) boat, you are thinking 45-47' ... Where is your husband/partner in all this?

He wants to keep your dream alive, you wrote, and from what you posted here I do get the impression (which isn't necessarily correct) this is all a lot more about what you want and had planned then a shared dream and plan.

45-47' Isn't small by any means, and why would you start a dream with a boat you can't really afford? You say you liked some smaller ones as well, but you are still looking at 45+ feet. I can see why your partner thinks it's best to keep that dream going; it doesn't sound like you'd be really happy on anything much smaller.

Your situation has changed dramatically. So adjust the sails, so to speak. Buy a boat you can afford and leaves you enough money to travel and maintain the boat without having to worry about money.

As the other posters already stated: cruising has nothing to do with the size of your boat. So either you want to go sailing, or you want to own a big boat. If it's all about wanting to go cruising, the size of the boat shouldn't be all that important.
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Old 03-12-2015, 23:45   #6
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Re: Reworking a dream

S.C. You are right that things do change over time and so does our perspective. What once worked no longer does. I see this. I also know that change is not the end of the world. My husband and I do talk about this regularly and we disagree at this point and I think that the truth is most likely somewhere in the middle. My health is still in flux. A new diagnosis, working out the bugs. He thinks things will smooth out and we can carry on with our dream.maybe he is right I don't know. Makes it very hard to make a decision on a boat. Wait, but how long, sdxfx. ix months, a year, two? All lost time in my book. So chartering is our solution for now. We will visit those far off places.


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Old 04-12-2015, 00:04   #7
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Re: Reworking a dream

The size of the boat is more dictated by hubby than me. I am happy on something that sleeps two that is easily managed by two and is simple as I personally am not mechanically inclined. He is an engineer, has strong family ties and believes that we should have enough to at least sleep the six adults in the family with "breathing room". I respect his point of view.

I did my day skipper course on a Bavaria 47 (or 48) and liked the way it handled. There aren't many for sale on my side of the pond. You can buy them new but that puts us back up in the budget of the used passports.

We chartered a jeanneau sun odyssey 40 and weren't as impressed with the boat handling. Of course there was the only two of us on a charter and that makes a difference. Mostly it was the storage issue that we didn't like.

The bristols I was looking at were in the 35 foot range. They would work for us alone but would be tight with guests.

We are not buying a boat until at least the spring so maybe by that time we will have more of a direction


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Old 04-12-2015, 00:35   #8
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Re: Reworking a dream

The size thing--even if your husband is big on having family visit, whatever the reason may be, unless your family are experienced sailors/cruisers and/or really outdoorsy people, they're NOT going to like being on your boat. They'll be much happier in a hotel nearby you. And with what you'll be saving on boat, you can share their hotel expenses in a lot of places for a lot of years before it's going to come close to breaking even. Little boat, little $.

There's always a lot to think about. We each have valid reasons for wanting what we want. Valid to us. If your husband isn't really logical about the whole family staying thing, then bigger boat it will have to be. Or no boat.

Having said that--you can purchase a CT 54 in good shape for peanuts compared to what you're thinking about. A friend of ours with one is lamenting the fact theirs has dropped in value from the price they paid to around $100K today. It's a HUGE boat for the money. I'm not so sure about ocean cruising, they coastal cruise with it but I believe it has a strong owner's group and so you could find out how they do.

As long as you can afford to maintain the bigger boat something like the CT is an option. Systems are more costly the bigger the boat is, though.

When you get down to the wire--push to shove--you'll start making the compromises needed to make the dream come to life. Right now it sounds like you're still very much in "planning" stage so the compromises aren't happening. Once you start the dominoes falling--by selling your house, changing jobs, doing something major that starts it all happening, you and your husband will be on a roll and you'll make it work (or not) as we all do.

If you're not planning on crossing oceans anytime soon, then even a tiny boat would work "for now" and there are a lot of really good small boats for less than the price of a good car.

Fair winds,
Brenda
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Old 04-12-2015, 01:01   #9
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Re: Reworking a dream

Brenda,
Went sailing on a laser last Sunday. Any sailing is better than none at at all for sure! Our stay in Dubai is of unknown length so I will rent lasers here for the time being and just enjoy the shear pleasure of being on the water again!


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Old 04-12-2015, 01:40   #10
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Re: Reworking a dream

Ah, Dubai isn't landlocked at all. It's been 20 years since I've been to the UAE and much has changed but everything still in the same places and sailing is a definite plus for that area. There are big boats in Dubai, too. Find some sailing friends--fast!
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Old 04-12-2015, 13:31   #11
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Re: Reworking a dream

brookiesailor,

I remember your posts from a while back. So sorry to hear you have had health problems, good to hear you are recovering from them and learning to cope with it all. Life sure does get in the way of our plans! I hope your new treatment works better.

Years ago, we had friends who circumnavigated in a Cal 27. They had a wonderful time. I have to agree with the gist of what the previous poster said: the view from the cockpit's the same, the foods available to you are the same as for the guys in the big boats. I am biased in this way because of who we've known and what we've done. We sailed to Hawaii and back to SF in a 30 footer. The first boat we crossed an ocean in was a 36 footer.

People seem to develop boat size ideas independently of much boating experience, these days, and in some senses by doing that, they make life a lot harder for themselves. Larger boats with complex systems spend more time and money getting fixed than smaller, simpler ones. If it is your husband who will be maintaining the boat, smaller and simpler would be good. I would not think the CT 54 would be suitable for you. Read up on all the problems with Taiwan built boats. [apologies to all the members who have one, no personal dis-respect is intended.]

Good luck with your plans.

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Old 04-12-2015, 14:34   #12
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Re: Reworking a dream

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
People seem to develop boat size ideas independently of much boating experience, these days, and in some senses by doing that, they make life a lot harder for themselves. Larger boats with complex systems spend more time and money getting fixed than smaller, simpler ones. If it is your husband who will be maintaining the boat, smaller and simpler would be good. I would not think the CT 54 would be suitable for you. Read up on all the problems with Taiwan built boats. [apologies to all the members who have one, no personal dis-respect is intended.]

Ann
Besides the fact that big boats usually mean many complex systems and that means $$$$$, I hesitated to bring up the CT 54 because each one is so different in condition dependent on previous owner's care, etc but having seen the particular friend's CT, and having discussed the typical deck problems and hull issues they can have (and it doesn't) I realize that not all such boats are full of problems yet all are impacted by low values because of the prevalence and perceptions of problems. It's a buyer beware situation and good value can be found if one knows what they're doing. From the bluewater perspective, the CT 54 has a lot of wide-open spaces inside that are contrary to safety below while ocean crossing IMO but others seem fine with it.

Big vs small is more like a discussion of complexity vs simplicity: While we were in the middle of the rebuild of our pre-WWII cruising boat, we were considering cruising on a smaller boat (a 30 ft) where everything was simple. That drove us to not get too carried away with systems in the larger boat. We're probably the only people around with such a large boat (30T) that uses non-pressure fresh water, doesn't have a hot water heater for that matter, doesn't have refrigeration, and many more things that folks usually feel they can't live without. We managed to get the simplicity we wanted while we happen to be in a larger vessel. It helps that our boat was never intended to have alot of the complexity, of course.

Keep on sailing. Yes! When I was talking about smaller boats I was thinking about a 30' or so boat, not a daysailer.

Ann--how was it on the 30' boat between HI and mainland? What sort of boat was it? In terms of interior space, btw, our 54' boat has only about as much space as the typical 40' cruising boat of today. It has a lot of sleep spots, but not alot of space. Back when ours was built, the style was narrow, less freeboard, and more into safety, less into living space. So, a lot of functional storage lockers and such but not so much living space. We briefly looked at a wood WWII era 42' Rhodes (rather racy) that had about as much space below as a Catalina 27, so it really varies by builder and era.

Oh--and I know the OP isn't going to get into a wood boat as her husband doesn't like AL, or steel, (saw that in a different post) so is unlikely to like wood. Wood boats either are very well kept and quite costly for their size or they've had deferred maintenance and will either be unsafey, unreliable, or end up costing the new owner quite a pretty penny to repair. Not much wiggle room on that. Unless you inherit a well-maintained wood boat you'll just have to realized that it's going to cost to get one in good shape. There are very few shortcuts.
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Old 04-12-2015, 14:48   #13
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Re: Reworking a dream

Brookie,

Sorry to hear about your health problems. Best wishes for you sailor!

As to your dilemma? I have a few suggestions to consider.

First, we don't need to know your health issues, but I will assume that it might mean you will not be 100% due to either recovery from surgery or weakness or some kind of treatment or medication. If you are not 100%, then operating a large sailboat is probably not the only thing to consider. Some boats have steep and high ladders etc. Just a thought.

Secondly, you have not mentioned your new budget. That info helps.

As for assumptions, I will assume you are not 100% strong as normally would be and may need to "take it easy" for medical reasons. I will also assume you want to spend no more than $100K (asking price) on a used boat that is suitable for cruising to the Bahamas or Florida Keys or Florida Coast or ICW.

So, here are a few suggestions:

1. Buy a smaller sailboat you can sail comfortably with husband. This is easy, but may not be the most comfortable in the long run for you and husband.

2. When family wants to visit or go sailing, you could host TWO (or a couple) on your boat, and have the others day sail with you and they would stay at a local hotel. I suspect this would be most comfortable for your family members.

3. If the others want to cruise with you and SAIL to a destination with you, you could have them charter another sailboat and you cruise in convoy, anchor near each other and have fun together. Swap boats for variety.

__________

You mentioned your husband is an "engineer" type guy and has a lot of experience on boats. While I remember your enthusiasm for sailing, I also remember the drive was to get on the water and cruise.

4. Consider buying a trawler instead of a sailboat. It might be easier on you (physically) and would have more room inside the Salon and could prove to be more comfortable for guests. Nice used trawlers can be purchased for $75K or more and can feature many comforts of home (Air Conditioning, Full Sized refrigerators, bigger master berth/bed, and possibly more deck space for lounging with family members.

For example, here is one for $100K that is 48 feet long, has four cabins (three are sleeping cabins), a large covered sun deck (very nice for family entertaining) and a large salon for inside time and several nice features. This is the kind of boat that if spiffed up would be excellent for a large family, or for a floating "water home" live aboard.
1990 Jefferson Sundeck Four Cabin Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Here are examples that are listed for less that $70K and has a nice sun deck for entertaining family. 1985 President 41 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1976 Gulfstar 43 Trawler Mark II Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

While I am a sailor at heart, I also enjoy looking at trawlers and motor yachts. Some are VERY nice looking and the conveniences of space and power and comforts can make them very attractive, especially for retirees and people who may not have the strength or physical abilities they once had when younger.

I hope this helps. Good luck on your boat search and best wishes for your better health and happiness on the water.
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Old 04-12-2015, 18:27   #14
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Re: Reworking a dream

Ann,
People sure have gone further on a lot less. I am sure it can be done. My husband has spent his life going to sea on ships, merchant marine, and so his definition of what he considers too small is is different than my definition of what I consider too big. We had a LONG discussion when considering the 50' boat as I felt that the 47' boat was about at the limit as what I could handle physically. Now I was completely out of shape at the time and have worked hard at building my strength back up to better than before I got sick, but I still think 50' would be a stretch for me. I am not a big person. I stand at a whopping 5'2". But I have a lot of spunk and determination that helps.

I spent yesterday afternoon looking at the passport 40 (1980's) They are well proven sea going boats and are a good buy if you can find one in decent shape. So that is a consideration. They have a Pullman berth which meets my husbands requirement for getting into bed from the side and although they only sleep four I think I can sell it to him. The price on that boat is $135,000 all cash.

The other option is a passport 47 (2004) mid $300,000's (finance able, less cash up front,) all the bells and whistles that hubby wants, sleeps 5. Drawback, built in China.


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Old 04-12-2015, 18:31   #15
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Re: Reworking a dream

Brenda,
It is funny... One of the things we were looking for in a boat was a washing machine. Now they are a huge space hog and not very useful under passage so I started looking at manual washers. I have fallen in love with the wonder washer idea and have crossed the washing machine as a necessity on my wants list.... Though unlike you....hot water....


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