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Old 29-12-2008, 17:16   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
The United States Coast Guard is a military, multimission, maritime service within the Department of Homeland Security and one of the nation's five armed services. Its core roles are to protect the public, the environment, and U.S. economic and security interests in any maritime region in which those interests may be at risk, including international waters and America's coasts, ports, and inland waterways.

The Coast Guard provides unique benefits to the nation because of its distinctive blend of military, humanitarian, and civilian law-enforcement capabilities. To serve the public, the Coast Guard has five fundamental roles:

Maritime Safety: Eliminate deaths, injuries, and property damage associated with maritime transportation, fishing, and recreational boating. The Coast Guard's motto is Semper Paratus—(Always Ready), and the service is always ready to respond to calls for help at sea.

Maritime Security: Protect America's maritime borders from all intrusions by: (a) halting the flow of illegal drugs, aliens, and contraband into the United States through maritime routes; (b) preventing illegal fishing; and (c) suppressing violations of federal law in the maritime arena.

Maritime Mobility: Facilitate maritime commerce and eliminate interruptions and impediments to the efficient and economical movement of goods and people, while maximizing recreational access to and enjoyment of the water.

National Defense: Defend the nation as one of the five U.S. armed services. Enhance regional stability in support of the National Security Strategy, utilizing the Coast Guard’s unique and relevant maritime capabilities.

Protection of Natural Resources: Eliminate environmental damage and the degradation of natural resources associated with maritime transportation, fishing, and recreational boating.

Goto:
USCG: Missions
I think that we all understand this and (IMHO) it should be as written.

The problem is, where does one draw the line between "Recreational boating" and "Extreme Sports"?

I don't think that the average tax payer/voter would consider crossing an ocean to visit a foreign country in a 45' sailboat to be, "Recreational boating". I think that most people would consider this as a pretty extreme activity that goes beyond the realm of what is referred to as "Recreational boating" and thereby may unduly tax resources by going beyond the intent of what is written.

I have a real hard time finding the logic in the reasoning that taxpayers of Australia should shoulder the cost of the rescue of a French (or citizen of any other country) sailor participating in a single-handed, round the world race.

Each time that one other these Southern Ocean rescues take place, it seems like Australia, South Africa, Argentina or New Zealand foots the bill. IMO, sooner or later, the cost of these rescues is going to cause the average cruiser to have to carry some sort of rescue insurance. I'm not sure how that will happen but it seems most logical to me that it will entail a large fee to register the EPIRB to take advantage of the EPIRB system.
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Old 29-12-2008, 17:39   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James S View Post
I would have thought they would have had a responsibility to scuttle her [Generali], seems setting her a sail with no crew/watch would be a violation of some maritime law???
Very interesting story..
As Connemara stated on another thread, James, you were perhaps somewhat prescient with your observation - The signal from Generali has been lost, and she is presumed to have sunk. Here's a link:
Newswire : An inspiration to so many - Vendée Globe (third item down)

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Old 29-12-2008, 18:11   #33
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Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
As Connemara stated on another thread, James, you were perhaps somewhat prescient with your observation - The signal from Generali has been lost, and she is presumed to have sunk. Here's a link:
Newswire : An inspiration to so many - Vendée Globe (third item down)

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I can't say that I'm surprised. I was a little perplexed that they left the sails up on that boat. IMO, it would have been safer to button her up with the sails stowed. I think she would have fended for herself quite well. I just couldn't see the logic in leaving the sails up. It was inevitable that she would get knocked down or capsized. What a shame.
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Old 29-12-2008, 18:29   #34
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Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
I have a real hard time finding the logic in the reasoning that taxpayers of Australia should shoulder the cost of the rescue of a French (or citizen of any other country) sailor participating in a single-handed, round the world race.

once again i dont understand this. they are there to save lives no matter who or why they are there. there budget which you seem so worried about is set if they do the rescuse or not they are up and out doing it waiting for the call, if they dont get a call they still get paid the same they still burn the gas ect. if some one needs help in our water ways we help them that it. in alot of countries they have nationalized health care so all of it is at no cost so if you vist them since you dony pay taxes there should they not help you, why you are there is of no issue, that you are there is the issue and you need help. i hope they would help you. Its no wounder people step over people in need in this country.
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Old 29-12-2008, 20:56   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanani View Post
I think that we all understand this and (IMHO) it should be as written....
<snip>
.....Each time that one other these Southern Ocean rescues take place, it seems like Australia, South Africa, Argentina or New Zealand foots the bill. IMO, sooner or later, the cost of these rescues is going to cause the average cruiser to have to carry some sort of rescue insurance. I'm not sure how that will happen but it seems most logical to me that it will entail a large fee to register the EPIRB to take advantage of the EPIRB system.
While I can see arguments for and against the "who pays for the rescue" question, I can't understand the argument of the division between recreational boaters, fishermen, merchant navies etc. Surely they are all mariners and should be treated equally (as is the current convention).

As to the EPRIB system, I would strongly object being forced to carry one AND pay dearly. Currently I am required to carry an approved EPRIB when off shore (West Aussie regulations; probably the same in other states and in NZ). I am required to register it. I am required to use it as a last resort in a life threating situation if I have any crew aboard (duty of care etc). I actually don't really want one however I am happy to comply with the regulations if there is no large financial cost burden attached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall View Post
once again i dont understand this. they are there to save lives no matter who or why they are there. there budget which you seem so worried about is set if they do the rescuse or not they are up and out doing it waiting for the call, if they dont get a call they still get paid the same they still burn the gas ect. if some one needs help in our water ways we help them that it. in alot of countries they have nationalized health care so all of it is at no cost so if you vist them since you dony pay taxes there should they not help you, why you are there is of no issue, that you are there is the issue and you need help. i hope they would help you. Its no wounder people step over people in need in this country.
I think you are confusing a USCG stituation to what happens in the Southern Ocean south of Australia, New Zeeland and South Africa etc.

It really DOES cost a lot of extra money to send warships / aircraft deep into the Southern Ocean to rescue someone when otherwise the ship / aircraft is at home in port.

However IMO, the master of the HMAS Arunta summed it up best (and I am paraphrasing here) when he stated something like "There was a mariner in distress - we rescued him - it is the law of the sea - it is what we do".
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Old 29-12-2008, 21:19   #36
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Amen Wotname, Amen !!
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Old 29-12-2008, 21:36   #37
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Throughout history ships have been lost at sea with great loss of life and property. Rescue organizations were formed around the globe to help rescue these mariners, whether they be merchant seamen, large ocean liners or fishers. Then along came the recreational boater and they were grandfathered in to the situation of free rescue. As an aside, I wonder what the ratio of rescue operations are, merchant/fishing to recreational? And do the Vendee Globe and other great races really fit into the category of recreational? They are after all an advertising scheme aren't they? The competitors are very well funded (for the most part) by large organizations. So how do they differ in essence from merchant seamen?

If the competitors of the Vendee Globe had to pay for rescue couldn't it be argued that fishers and merchant operations should also pay? And how about the merchant fleet that plies the Gulf of Aden? Should they pay for the very large naval force that is now gathering there to protect them against piracy? And should the cruise industry also pay for rescue operations? How about ferries?

Then we could get into things like Fire Departments around the world. After all, aren't most fires preventable? Or should snowmobilers who get caught in avalanches in the back country pay? And carrying this into the rediculous, how about motorists caught in traffic accidents or stranded in storms?

And if the answer is yes, they should all pay, should they then have to pay in advance so as to assure payment to the state?

Isn't it, after all, about saving lives and keeping commerce and industry safe? And don't we all benefit?
I think we do.
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Old 29-12-2008, 22:07   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
The United States Coast Guard is a military, multimission, maritime service within the Department of Homeland Security and one of the nation's five armed services. Its core roles are to protect the public, the environment, and U.S. economic and security interests in any maritime region in which those interests may be at risk, including international waters and America's coasts, ports, and inland waterways.
Goto:
USCG: Missions
Yes but the Life-savers were not added to the Coast Guard until 1915. They had a proud history before being merged and were modeled on the British Life-saving service.
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Perhaps this poem by Joe Lincoln sums up a Life-Saver:
He's a rigger, rower, swimmer, sailor, undertaker,
And he's good at every one of 'em the same,
And he risks his life for others in the quicksands and the breakers.
And a thousand wives and mothers bless his name.
He's an angel dressed in oilskins, he's a saint in a "sou'wester,
"He's as plucky as they make, or ever can.
He's a hero born and bred, but it hasn't swelled his head,
And he's jest the U.S. Government's hired man.


source: National Park Service U.S. Department of the Interior
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I've certainly the greatest respect for the men and women who save us recreational boaters' lives year after year.


So, I would say that yes, our respective Governments created these services explicitly to assist boaters in distress. In the USA this service began in 1847, in Great Britain even earlier. I've never questioned their existence, nor honestly even thought about it much before reading the pay for services question raised by this thread.


In point of fact, we all pay for these services each and every year in our tax bill. So, aren't we discussing a fully "pre paid" government service which is dedicated to keeping us alive?



And someone wants this to stop?



Why?
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Old 29-12-2008, 22:22   #39
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This topic comes up every few months and I refrain from replying. However, I'm compelled to on this thread. To be honest I'm ashamed of anyone who calls themselves a sailor (or human being) that would deny another assistance, regardless of the reason for assistance. Civil Servants (CG, Military, Police, Fire Fighters, etc) is a structural asset to protect and serve the members of society, a job they willingly signed up for. As for anyone who would intentionally ignore a hail for help, shame on you!

Kind of like the 72 year old lady who loaded up her car with food bags Christmas Eve to delivery to her elderly homebound friends and got a flat tire on the side of the interstate. Yep we stopped - She admitted she was having problems with the tire, but she drove on it anyway. She put herself in danger, the other drivers on the road in danger, me and my wife in danger and the trooper who ensured traffic slowed around us in danger. Think of all the people at risk on this innocent mistake -

So the next time you read or hear about any type of rescue take comfort in knowing
Civil Servants and Samaritans are there, willing to assist!!

My 2 cent rant -
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Old 29-12-2008, 22:51   #40
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As you quote from their website

their mission statement, it should be noted that within that is a bureacracy unlike many others. Although there are the dedicated men and women on the line rescuing people, keep in mind they are the few.

There was a huge scandal here in Baltimore that had to do with the
legal proceedings.......The USCG over a period of years lost very few cases......This was due to directives from the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
The United States Coast Guard is a military, multimission, maritime service within the Department of Homeland Security and one of the nation's five armed services. Its core roles are to protect the public, the environment, and U.S. economic and security interests in any maritime region in which those interests may be at risk, including international waters and America's coasts, ports, and inland waterways.

The Coast Guard provides unique benefits to the nation because of its distinctive blend of military, humanitarian, and civilian law-enforcement capabilities. To serve the public, the Coast Guard has five fundamental roles:

Maritime Safety: Eliminate deaths, injuries, and property damage associated with maritime transportation, fishing, and recreational boating. The Coast Guard's motto is Semper Paratus—(Always Ready), and the service is always ready to respond to calls for help at sea.

Maritime Security: Protect America's maritime borders from all intrusions by: (a) halting the flow of illegal drugs, aliens, and contraband into the United States through maritime routes; (b) preventing illegal fishing; and (c) suppressing violations of federal law in the maritime arena.

Maritime Mobility: Facilitate maritime commerce and eliminate interruptions and impediments to the efficient and economical movement of goods and people, while maximizing recreational access to and enjoyment of the water.

National Defense: Defend the nation as one of the five U.S. armed services. Enhance regional stability in support of the National Security Strategy, utilizing the Coast Guard’s unique and relevant maritime capabilities.

Protection of Natural Resources: Eliminate environmental damage and the degradation of natural resources associated with maritime transportation, fishing, and recreational boating.

Goto:
USCG: Missions
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Old 29-12-2008, 23:44   #41
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Originally Posted by sv-Mystique View Post
This topic comes up every few months and I refrain from replying. However, I'm compelled to on this thread. To be honest I'm ashamed of anyone who calls themselves a sailor (or human being) that would deny another assistance, regardless of the reason for assistance. Civil Servants (CG, Military, Police, Fire Fighters, etc) is a structural asset to protect and serve the members of society, a job they willingly signed up for. As for anyone who would intentionally ignore a hail for help, shame on you!

Kind of like the 72 year old lady who loaded up her car with food bags Christmas Eve to delivery to her elderly homebound friends and got a flat tire on the side of the interstate. Yep we stopped - She admitted she was having problems with the tire, but she drove on it anyway. She put herself in danger, the other drivers on the road in danger, me and my wife in danger and the trooper who ensured traffic slowed around us in danger. Think of all the people at risk on this innocent mistake -

So the next time you read or hear about any type of rescue take comfort in knowing
Civil Servants and Samaritans are there, willing to assist!!

My 2 cent rant -
Not sure where this came from. I don't see anyone suggesting that others should be refused assistance when needed. What is being addressed is accountability. Something that is sorely lacking in this day & age.

Who among us has the right to ask someone to risk their life to save ours because we made a conscious decision to do something that most people would consider as reckless??? Ever ask yourself that question??
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Old 30-12-2008, 03:58   #42
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Who among us has the right to ask someone to risk their life to save ours because we made a conscious decision to do something that most people would consider as reckless??? Ever ask yourself that question??

I guess what I tried to point out in my earlier post is that it is in fact their job description to save lives. It has been for almost 170 years.

As to your point, of course all mariners should have both their vessel and themselves fully prepared for sea however, should the unexpected occur all of us want our respective Coast Guards on the job. No one wants a bill for services.

Some posters in this Cruisers forum have used the services of the rescue services. I wouldn't call any of them unprepared for sea. Some have lost their vessel others have lost loved ones. Wouldn't you agree they've contributed more than enough 'payment'?
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