Requesting Opinions On Potential Purchase

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis

If you will allow me to give you my honest advice based on experience in such matters and familiarity with many Morgans....if you are relying on a free, crowd-sourced opinions based on your brief review of a 46' boat in order to decide whether to spend 75k for this boat and are hesitant to hire a surveyor for...oh--maybe $1000...then perhaps, just maybe you should not be buying this boat--or perhaps you cannot really afford to buy any boat, especially a 46 footer of 1982 vintage. Take the risk--or not, but if the risk of a thousand dollar survey is too much, then...well...what's next? Ask strangers online for our opinions based on your photos and a few ideas? The listing says the boat was re-rigged in 2008--that's great news..so how bad do you think is the mast step or the strut? Where do you plan to sail--Tahiti? Since you have likely found some of the major issues, why not go next to get estimates? Of course-tell the technician that you have not bought the boat--don't blindside them... If you need to pull the mast and work on the step, add a head, replace the AC...whatever you think it will cost--double it and ask yourself if you can afford it// and double the hours you think it will take. If you cannot afford to put 25k to 50k into the boat.....run. But why place value on our free online crowd-sourced advice based on a few photos? You want real answers? Pay a professional. There is a lot at stake. Beware and proceed cautiously, but you are looking at a 1982 boat for 75k. What are you expecting? If you want new and perfect and a warranty--go pay a million dollars. BTW--have you owned other boats?

I didn't get this from the OP's posts at all. A professional survey is a must on any boat. How many $1,000+ surveys can you walk away from? Sure a survey that you use to choose to walk away can save you 10's of thousands, but nobody wants to spend 10K on surveys.

It makes sense to me to do the best you can to tap into as many resources as possible before deciding to pull the trigger on a survey. There are many good and knowledgeable resource on this site which might give insight into a problem (or not).

I feel the OP is doing their due diligence and can respect that.

[dgz3]

The part of your brain that does all the rational analytical stuff is the little part.
The big part of your brain is the part that just knows stuff.
If the big part of your brain is tossing up doubts and fears about the deal, maybe you should listen.
I wouldn't buy a boat that big or that expensive unless I was absolutely delighted in every way and had no concerns at all. Period.
If you really like the boat, then think up a ridiculous low price that would make you do a Happy Dance if accepted, and then walk. "Selling broker's schedule?" lol
As long as your money is in your pocket, you're in charge.
There are just too many boats for sale to compromise.

[Davidhoy]

Originally Posted by dgz3

The part of your brain that does all the rational analytical stuff is the little part.
The big part of your brain is the part that just knows stuff.
If the big part of your brain is tossing up doubts and fears about the deal, maybe you should listen.
I wouldn't buy a boat that big or that expensive unless I was absolutely delighted in every way and had no concerns at all. Period.
If you really like the boat, then think up a ridiculous low price that would make you do a Happy Dance if accepted, and then walk. "Selling broker's schedule?" lol
As long as your money is in your pocket, you're in charge.
There are just too many boats for sale to compromise.

I understand your point but see it from a different perspective. If I were waiting for that perfect boat, that I was "delighted in every way" with, I'd still be boatless. Actually, I was in that place for a long time, and it nearly cost me my dream as I could see no way to being able to afford that perfect boat. And even then, the perfect boat would not remain that way. I was talking to a guy just the other day who bought a brand new boat and has spent the last 6 months dealing with all kinds of issues, mostly covered by warranty, but issues nonetheless.

I think it's more about making informed decisions, knowing that there will always be issues of one kind or another. The OP is in that place, trying to get enough information to make that decision for himself. It may not be the decision you would make, but we all have different priorities. Mine are more aligned with his, yours are elsewhere, all just as valid.

Regards,
David

[Hardhead]

I think people come here who like to talk & think about boats. I say the OP has done us all a favor by distracting us from whatever we are seeking relaxation from.

Now I'm thinking about the possibilities of older Morgans. Thanks OP, great question-

[TCL]

Originally Posted by Guy

Is all that black stuff mold? Don't buy a moldy boat.

Responding belatedly to Guy's question, I'm not sure that the dark areas in those pics are mold. In contrast to a few other boats I've looked at, where lockers had definite mold--I could run my fingers along the inside and come away with black mold (I didn't make offers on those boats, obviously).

There were a lot of Damp-Rid buckets below in the saloon and master cabin, and there were sole panels that were stuck or hard to remove because swollen. The broker's comment: "Humidity."

I tend to think those are symptoms of a boat sitting on the hard, mostly closed up, for 18 months in Florida and might not be a problem if the hatches are open, air is circulating, and the a/c were run at least periodically.

Thanks for the comment, Guy.

[zeehag]

if the porta potty is a thetford 875 or similar then it is a nicely enclosed self containing head system approved for ocean crossing yachts, such as islander 44 , the transat version. beautiful boat and with a porta potty thetford 875 which has a self contained 6 gallon holding tank and manual pump out system. seems mid 1970s islanders and some ericsons and other similar marques used these marine heads instead of boat sinkers, aka alleged normal marine toilet, such as raritan , jabsco, groco and blake, et alii. boats sink with marine heads therefore the option
as for the rest of the boat--if you are madly in love with this particular boat, hire a rather pricey sams nams certified marine surveyor. in so cal area i prefer kjels christian, who is most honest and realistic. there are other similar boats for sale and this still is a buyers market.

[ErikFinn]

I had a Morgan 63 and always liked the bigger Morgan's for their looks and I liked the photos on the advert. My 2 cents: pay special attention to the condition of the hull; the reason why its been sitting on the hard for was it 18 months may be related to blisters on the hull and subsequent effort to try to dry the hull. Not necessarily serious but you would like to know before making a desicion. I liked the fact that the ports had been replaced, old ones prob leaked as they usually do in this vintage if not taken care of. Furthermore, I liked the fact that the boat don't have teak decks. Always a plus on older boats imho. The engine appears to be a non-turbo one which is good, more reliable and less maintenance. But it doesn't look so tidy, warrants for closer inspection. What else? If you like the boat a lot and make an offer I'd make one 15-20% below the asking price and if accepted get a survey to avoid nasty surprises. If something is found you can reconsider and or negotiate. Reserve around 20K annually for maintenance, on top of marina fees insurance fuel etc.. If no major problems its still way more affordable than going for a newer yacht this size. Hope it turns out well for you

[zeehag]

ps a boat on the hard is less valuable than one sitting in water. the one in water, you know aint sinking, on hard--why is it on hard so long, why didnt it get re splashed. are there dimples from cradle/jackstands.. too many potential fail. morgans werent prone to blisters as htey were hand laid. blisters began with sprayed gelcoat (mid 70s-80s). is not impermeable duhh. hand painted gelcoat is impermeable. i got my info while observing a master yachtbuilder at work laying up my 42 ft hull in 1990. (it was physically destroyed in 1995 by deranged ex husband--long story).

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by Shrew

I didn't get this from the OP's posts at all. A professional survey is a must on any boat. How many $1,000+ surveys can you walk away from? Sure a survey that you use to choose to walk away can save you 10's of thousands, but nobody wants to spend 10K on surveys.

It makes sense to me to do the best you can to tap into as many resources as possible before deciding to pull the trigger on a survey. There are many good and knowledgeable resource on this site which might give insight into a problem (or not).

I feel the OP is doing their due diligence and can respect that.

Ya, this.

[TheOffice]

The mast step and prop strut don't concern me. A 46 year old motor, wiring, rig concern me. Its very easy to underestimate the cost of upkeep on an old boat. The sails look old despite the listing (Who stores sails for 13 years?). She was built pre-holding tanks, and no one retro fitted her. She is heavy, slow and expensive to maintain.

[zeehag]

old boat that wins your heart despite condition---- survey it or if you are very very smart and not ever going to insure hull nor arrange financing with a bank, self survey it. if more than 10k investment, pay surveyor. save yourself to have a listing made of what needs fixed, some of which you can pawn off onto old owner before you pay real dough. talk that over with the seller as you decide these things... make it sound as if the issue is a true deal breaker. be heartless if you love love love the boat and cannot live without it. but donot allow the seller to see you really really want it.. haha ha ha ha
second thing to do is overhaul engine.
check all points of potential ingress of water for signs of same. make sure all underwater stuff is water tight and ready for splash. the rest can be done in water.

[tankersteve]

I also agree with Shrew's evaluation. The OP is wondering if he should make an offer, and pay for a survey, or if he should walk away. The OP then made a rather gracious, if perhaps not elegant, retort to the comment by Paul. Paul proceeded to act hurt.

Paul, while you have a world of advice and practical experience to offer this forum, perhaps you could read aloud the OP's original post, and see where you interpreted =make an offer and pay for a survey= as -make an offer based on internet comments or pay for a survey-.


That is how I took the exchange, as apparently did others. The OP didn't look petty in the exchange. But someone did.


Tankersteve

[Davidhoy]

How are things coming along with your boat search, TCL? Very curious to see where things lead for you, especially since you've been looking at a boat that I considered before finding a sister ship elsewhere. I hope you're getting your questions and concerns addressed. Where will you keep the boat if/when you purchase it? I know of at least 3 other Morgan 462 owners in south Florida - one in Vero Beach, another in Fort Pierce, and one in Miami. I'm sure there are more...

Regards,
David

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by TCL

1. I've attached some photos of the mast step. The structural frame member looks like it has been re-glassed. This seems like a big red flag. I've asked the brokers to get info from the owner on why this was done. Question is: Anyone think this is a big enough red flag that I should just run before bearing the cost of the survey? (Sorry about the orientation of some of the photos; I had to stick my phone under a stuck sole plate and shoot blindly.)

Hi TCL,

Yes it sure does look re-glassed, and with fiberglass mat, with what appears to be jagged and broken plywood under the fiberglass mat topped off with the mast step and through-bolts or lag screws. That would be looking from left to right at picture #4. This was the hatch directly above that was jammed closed.

I totally agree on asking for any additional info from the broker on this repair.

Also, I'd like to offer my compliments in getting past the gloss and shine of the three photos highlighting the bowl on the dining table and digging through the hull.

I'd wager you end up with a grand yacht.

[dgz3]

Four. Four pics of the bowl.