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Old 07-02-2018, 15:03   #16
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Remove the Mizzin mast?

I always use the mizzen. Even when there's no wind!
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Old 07-02-2018, 15:42   #17
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

[QUOTE=Mainebristol;2571938]? I can't recall the last time I failed to set mine. The boat balances better that way. I tend to drop the main if I get too much air, but never the mizzen.


I agree 100%. Same sail area as a larger sloop rig with smaller, easier to handle sails
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Old 07-02-2018, 18:23   #18
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
Correct, in my case the Mizzen is usually the first to go up and last to come down.....


We do the same, unless the wind is on the quarter or further aft. The the mizzen only serves to make the helm squirrelly.
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Old 07-02-2018, 18:45   #19
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

Good grief! All this theorizing when the OP failed to tell us how she sails in her current configuration. If she was badly balanced, you'd think he would have mentioned this significant fact.

I think that many of you give excessive weight to the theoretical effectiveness of center of effort vs center of lat resistance on sailing balance. Lots of boats seem to ignore this as a major player. Both Dockhead and I have boats that balance well with main alone or jib alone, and find that heel angle has a much greater effect on weather helm with either extreme of sail distribution.

So, for the OP, I'd say that if the boat is sailing well for you with the current sail plan, the only reason for changing is to reap the advantages of the ketch's multiple choices of sail arrangements. If those are not important to you, why spend the money to acquire a new mast, boom, mizzen sail and new mainsail and shorter boom, plus mizzen rigging and chainplates? These things could be kinda expensive!

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Old 07-02-2018, 18:51   #20
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

I can't really imagine why anyone would try to fundamentally change the carefully worked-out sail plan of a successful design, but then I never understood why anyone would want to fundamentally change America as founded either; but given that someone did change the design and you bought it, how does she sail? Are you experiencing lee helm?
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Old 07-02-2018, 19:38   #21
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

If you look at her profile (I did manage to find one) you'll see that she is very deep aft, has a transom-hung rudder, and has a severely cut-away forefoot as befits a ketch. First impressions, therefore, are that she'd suffer from lee helm in her present configuration, as many of us have asked about without prejudging the case. Jim is right, of course, the proof is in the pudding. If she has an appropriate amount of weather helm, all is honkey-dorey.

If one cannot take the boat out for a spin, the place to start, when considering the question asked by the OP, is by looking at her profile. The joys of ketch-hood notwithstanding, it would obviously be possible to modify 'er, but I would venture that there are few of us who should presume to second-guess Francis Herreshoff :-)!

So, OP, just how IS her helm?

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Old 07-02-2018, 19:47   #22
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

These are the pics i found, does look a little awkward, but only the owner(s) can say for sure... although they do suggest she sails well in 'lighter air'....

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.....It sails smoothly when the wind is not really strong.
Natoma: a Classic 1946 Herreshoff Diddikai « www.yachtworld.com www.yachtworld.com

1946 Herreshoff Diddikai sailboat for sale in Washington
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Old 07-02-2018, 20:21   #23
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHopper View Post
These are the pics i found, does look a little awkward, but only the owner(s) can say for sure... although they do suggest she sails well in 'lighter air'....



Natoma: a Classic 1946 Herreshoff Diddikai « www.yachtworld.com www.yachtworld.com

1946 Herreshoff Diddikai sailboat for sale in Washington
Well, I gotta admit that she looks unbalanced to my eye... but lacking sailing data, I'll just say it is aesthetic dissonance.

Jim
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:28   #24
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Well, I gotta admit that she looks unbalanced to my eye... but lacking sailing data, I'll just say it is aesthetic dissonance.



Jim


Agreed.

I do know if I tried to sail our boat in those conditions at that point of sail without the mizzen Id be fighting lee helm....but thats on a Gilmer design, not a herreshoff design.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:10   #25
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

I would think so :-)!

The Seawind's underwater profile is very nearly identical to that of Didikai, and many of her "numbers" are nearly identical also, although she does carry rather more beam. She is also a 1 1/2 ton lighter. I think we see clearly, comparing the two boats, the evolution in thinking during the three decades that separate their design, and how yacht designers at that time were edging towards the dictates of the consumer society. Ultimately, that gave us things like the Catalina 27. Not to mention TrentePieds ;-)!

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Old 09-02-2018, 13:46   #26
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

I have sailed several sloops as crew and helm. I then bought a ketch motor sailer for the compfort speed and options. I never sail without all the sails and I have a huge genoa. Without the mizzen I cant control a tack unless I have some nifty crew who know how to handle a sail. We tack and just keep going round. The genoa gives us some real pull and tghe mizzen baslances it brilliantly. Until last year we either motored or sailed being a dinghy first sort of gal. Now I use everything, all sails and power and I wouldnt go back to a sloop. Besides as someone else said, more string to pull..
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Old 09-02-2018, 14:16   #27
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Re: Remove the Mizzin mast?

THANK YOU ALL -

I have only sailed her during the sea trial. She sailed very well. Time will tell. After I have surgery, if the weather cooperates I can sail more.
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