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Old 06-02-2013, 13:30   #1
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registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

Hi all, I have question. I've recently bought a US registered yacht here in NZ. It has had GST paid but is not a NZ registered yacht yet. Its registration has been cancelled in the US by previous owner. I'm looking to sail to the islands this winter and would really like to avoid the expense and hassle of getting Cat 1. Obviously if I register her here I'm stuck and will need cat 1 to depart.
So, does anyone have any ideas how I can have her registered in another country?
Thank you all for your time .
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Old 06-02-2013, 21:47   #2
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

Have you thought of the British SSR. If you register it in the name of someone who lives in England (there are a few other people who qualify) you can register it in the SSR. To be perfectly legal the owner has to be in England but if you know someone who has an address there you can use that. It is not proof of ownership but is a register.
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Old 06-02-2013, 23:00   #3
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

I registered my boat on the UK SSR 'cos I was annoyed by the constantly changing NZ Cat 1 regs...when I first did Cat 1, you needed two buckets, now you need four !
BUT I would have to say that if you don't have most of what's in the Cat 1 requirements, you probably shouldn't be going to sea.

Charlie is correct ...all you need is a UK address so someone can forward you the rego certificate...you do it all on line...costs about 30GBP.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:52   #4
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

Hi Gull,

A few things are important. Have you received a proof of deletion (Closed transcript) from the American register (USCG National Vessel Documentation Center)? Was the vessel State registered and if so where? Do you have a proof of deletion from the State registry? A 'Closed transcript' in combination with a Bill of Sale stating you as the buyer and preferably a Builder's Certificate proofs to any other shipping registry in the world the vessel is free of mortgages or claims and especially is free of title. You can now register the boat in the New Zealand register or like some of the others said in the UK SSR Part I. Information about the SSR can be found here: Owning a registered pleasure craft | nidirect

However, as a New Zealander I would not register my boat in the UK and especially not in the name of someone else. Registration is considered a proof of ownership in most counrties. I know the UK SSR is a bit vague about this, but it can easily be confused in other counrties when you have to proof ownership. Not convenient and potentially a lot of trouble. Apart from that you need to trust someone a whole lot to register your boat into their name and they have to trust you as well. I would go for New Zealand registration to prevent issues.

A person wanting to register a ship under Part A of the register needs to send Maritime New Zealand’s Registrar of Ships the following:

• an Application for Part A Registration (form SR2)
• the appropriate fee, being:
o NZ$1,572.18 for a new build ship over 24 metres in length
o NZ$1,309.47 for a new build ship 24 metres or less
o NZ$2,007.64 for an existing ship over 24 metres in length
o NZ$1,833.87 for an existing ship 24 metres or less
o NZ$2,182.44 for a demise charter ship
• a Builder's Certificate (form SR23) or a photocopy of a Builder's Certificate if the ship has been previously registered in another country
• evidence of all ownership changes from the builder to you or, if the ship has been previously registered in another country, evidence of all ownership changes from the last registered overseas owner to you
• a Declaration of Ownership and Nationality (form SR4)
• a certified transcript of any previous overseas registration, ie applicable
• evidence that any previous overseas registration has been closed, if applicable, eg a deletion certificate
• for ships over 24 metres in length, an International Tonnage Certificate (1969) and New Zealand Surveyor's Tonnage Certificate. These certificates both need to be prepared by a surveyor who is recognised by Maritime New Zealand
• for ships 24 metres or less in length, a Surveyor's Certificate is required. This certificate needs to be issued by a surveyor who is recognised by Maritime New Zealand
• a Carving and Marking Note signed by a recognised surveyor (for commercial ships) or by the owner (for pleasure vessels)
• an Appointment of Representative Person (form SR1) and fee of NZ$104.27 is required if the ship’s owner does not reside in New Zealand or does not have a registered office in New Zealand
• for demise charter ships, a Declaration by Charterer (form SR5) and a copy of the charterparty is required.


I can send you all the forms you need if you like.
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:04   #5
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pirate Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

Christ almighty... glad I don't live in NZ... with some old boats I've bought you've no chance of getting 50% of the items above... a bill of sale is usually what one gets when you buy a boat this side... most times origonal documentation has disappeared over the years.
As for the SSR... one does not use the friends name... just the address... and don't use an NZ credit card.. dead giveaway which will stop the application in its tracks..
As to proof of ownership.. if you flip over it states clearly the SSR is NOT proof of ownership... however the bill of sale is...
When checking in anywhere its Passports, Registration, Bill of Sale, Insurance, Crew List and ZARPE.... no different from the norm..
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:31   #6
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

You are right about the SSR, but in many foreign ports where they ask for your registration you might end up in discussion if they ask questions about the registration address when they see a New Zealand passport. In the worse case they contact the register and start digging. Registration in most counrties is a pain. Australia and The Netherlands have the most user friendly registers by far. Part 3 of the UK SSR is fine but rather useless.

When registering for PART I of the UK SSR you need the following:

1. The payment of the registration fee
2. MSF 4740 - Application to Register a British Ship (27 KB)
3. MSF 4740A - Application to Register a British Ship over 500 gt (910 KB)
4. MSF 4727 - Declaration of Eligibility (21 KB)
5. MSF 4705 - Bill of Sale (16 KB)
6. MSF 4743 - Builders Certificate ((contact the builder/yard to fill out this form if you don't have it > we supply a template in our DIY yacht broker sales module if needed)
7. Certificate of Survey for Tonnage and Measurement > MSF 5100 - Application for Survey and Inspection of Ships and Fishing Vessels


When you don't have a mortgage on the boat (which I would definitely not do when you use a 'fake' address) you can register for PART III online here:

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/ssr/ssr/

I know New Zealand requires a lot of paperwork, but I would recommend just doing that. You don't want to take chances when it comes to this. Sure a lot of documents might be missing, or the builder doesn't exist anymore and can't provide a builder's certificate, but registers know how it works. A bill of sale, a survey by a recognized institute and a closed transcript from the US are usually enough to be able to register this boat. The more you have the easier it will be, but you can rest asure that the former/deleted US registration inspires enough faith for the Kiwi's to accept registration of the vessel. Especially in combination with a bill of sale and in some cases a proof of payment.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:14   #7
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

wow,big thanks for the replies, thats great info.Have goggles SSR and that sounds very promising especially as I have friends in the UK, so have an address there.
Another suggestion I've had is the Langkawi International Yacht Registry.
Anyone have any feedback on that? which would be the best.
I understand that if I was going around the world, into many countries it'd make sense just to register here in NZ as apparently having a yacht registered in different country to your passport can raise eyebrows...But,I just want to go to the islands over some winters, bringing her back in the spring. Maybe I'd have to jump through a few extra hoops the first time entering but imagine it be smoother after that.
In reply to questions - yes the yacht was registered in the US, in its state and I can see online its prior registration and that it's been stopped. That side of it - proving ownership should be fine I think as I am in contact with previous owner.
Hey, thanks again for the replies, if anyone has any more to add I'd appreciate it.
I guess the one question is- going to the islands, will I be fine with SSR and NZ passport plus proof of ownership?
P.s. Yes i know my yacht will need to be well prepared for the journey ,cat 1 or not.This is not my first yacht and I've spent a lot of time on the sea. Its more the 'hand of officialdom' that bothers me, and Cat 1, like a lot of legislation, has crept from been a reasonable 'the bare minimum' into something that is over the top.
cheers
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:51   #8
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

You will be fine with any passport and a UK SSR registration...I've been doing it for years in the Pacific...they don't care really.... it's just paperwork.
As for NZ registration..you don't have to go through all that Part A stuff.
There is a Part B registration which is fine for travelling o'seas, it doesn't guarantee title though but like the SSR is very simple to obtain.
However any NZ registration puts you in the class of needing a Cat 1 certificate.
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Old 07-02-2013, 13:19   #9
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

Cat 1 is very dependant on the experience of the inspector, they can make it hard or easy, everything required in the cat 1 list is predicated on a racing boat, if you have an inspector who is cruiser oriented the chances are that your cat 1 experience will / can be be more realistic.
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Old 07-02-2013, 13:34   #10
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

Gull, you don't mention what your own citizenship and residency are. Kiwi presumably? If the new boat is to be insured, the insurers may look askance at foreign flagging. I have no idea what other complications you may find if you go venue-shopping that way.

"US registered" can be a point of confusion. In the US, except for some official federal promouncements, we never, ever, use the term "US registered". A boat is State registered, in one of the fifty states, and/or federally documented. Best to stick to that convention, as it always makes clear what the status of the vessel is. In your case, presumably it was federally documented, which should mean there is/was sufficient documentation for wherever you next flag it.
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Old 07-02-2013, 14:42   #11
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

How does one check on the registration, existence of or expiry of, of a yacht that has been US (Alaska) registered?
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Old 07-02-2013, 15:21   #12
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

I have no idea what all you folks are talking about, looks like having a yacht in New Zeeland is a pain in the you know what! SSP , cat1, SSR, USSR, NKR, egads. feel for you guys. In the US, we buy a boat, pay a sales tax, user's fee yearly, then go sailing with the required safety equiptment. US documentation is a freebee, if you want it.
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Old 07-02-2013, 15:30   #13
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Pope View Post
How does one check on the registration, existence of or expiry of, of a yacht that has been US (Alaska) registered?
all states are a bit different, in Michigan; when the boat is sold, you sign off the registration on the back of the (proof of registration) and the title. the new owner then has the responsibility of re-registering the boat. by presenting that slip and title to the secretary of state. he will then get a new title. If there is a lein, it gets a little more complex. same as buying a car.
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Old 07-02-2013, 15:39   #14
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jort View Post
Registration is considered a proof of ownership in most counrties. I know the UK SSR is a bit vague about this, but it can easily be confused in other counrties when you have to proof ownership.
The UK SSR is very clear that the registration is not proof of ownership - it's written on the cert.

In fact same for the UK Part 1 Registration - cert also clearly marked, albeit in practice treated "as good as" (and also usually is!).

In practice works ok though , whether foreign officialdom reads the cert and understands that is a good question! But having a Bill of Sale provides that evidence of ownership if also required. (in the UK a Bill of Sale is as good as it gets for that, at least in a single document - no official confirmation of boat ownership available, so of course a greater potential for ownership to be disputed but that in practice only arises if someone has a reason to dispute, and officialdom won't have one - unless they are given a reason to).
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Old 07-02-2013, 15:41   #15
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Re: registering exUS yacht to avoid Cat1

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Christ almighty... glad I don't live in NZ... with some old boats I've bought you've no chance of getting 50% of the items above

Steve Pope - state registration is usually only for 1 year although some states can be for multiple years ( here in NC you can get a 3 yr registration) I believe all states provide a sticker and certainly a registration paper that will show the expatriation date of the state registration. Note that this is ONLY the registration, NOT proof of ownership. Alaska is not a title state http://doa.alaska.gov/dmv/reg/boat.htm so likely all you can get is a Affidavit of Ownership (Form 848). You might querry a link on the website and find a helpful state worker. Mention Lord of the Rings and they might respond better.
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