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Old 08-10-2016, 14:41   #526
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yes. The money factor is there big way.

BUT

Why is this that a s/h cat that displaces 6 tonnes costs easily twice as much as a mono of the same weight?

Is the cost not related to amt of resin/glass used?

Is there so much more work involved in building a cat that this workload cost carries on to boats 20 years old?

Or is lead so cheap related to grp and balsa?

Or is there so much more demand for cats that the price is driven this high?

I look at many older cats and never stop to wonder how a pile of worn down plastic can be so outrageously expensive.

I can't remember if I have ever seen a nice cat for less than 100k. I have seen a Nicholson 35, fully refurbished asking 55k, yesterday.

Just wondering aloud.

b.
Maybe because they don't price boats by the pound.

2" thick chopper gun fiberglass hull are really cheap and easy to produce and they can really drive the lb/$ ratio up. On your average mono an extra 1000lbs doesn't hurt performance much, so no reason to spend a lot of time, effort and cost on using high tech materials.

Back in the late 80's early 90's, when cruising cats were really becoming popular, supply and demand may have been the reason but 20-30yrs on, if you could build a cat of a given length for the same price and the same quality, someone would have done it. The market won't accept prices that are too high over a long period of time. Someone would have undercut the market if they were overcharging.
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Old 08-10-2016, 17:44   #527
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Boats resale value IMHO are affected by a number of things.
Cost new: the more expensive the cost when new the more expensive the boat costs used. The anomaly here is some boats sell for the same or more than new 15-25 years later. Ex Morgan out island 41. Some were 25-40k new, and selling for more all these years later. Endeavour cat 30 or older Geminis some cost 40-65k and are still or were a year or two ago still selling for that, as the costs of newer ones have doubled and tripled. At one point leopard 38's which in the late 90s were around 200k new were still selling for that after 10 years of charter. Still worth 160+k 15-20 years later. Why? New ones were now over 300k+. And getting more expensive all the time. Depreciation plays a big part. The market is not flooded with cats. Except Geminis and here you clearly see what's happened. A nice used 105mc 2 years ago was 125-150ish now they are 75-85k with some still asking way too much. Because the market is flooded with them as it has become over the years with monohulls, which is also why monos are cheaper.
And also condition. We passed on a $40k privlidge 39 with running engines and new sails. The boat was a wreck. Same boat in pristine shape is 120k+.




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Old 08-10-2016, 22:02   #528
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Agreed, except he is overstating the costs of a cat by a large margin and has a crazy low assumption for the price of monohulls of equivalent age and condition.

We actually considered shipping our Gemini to Europe before buying the Catalac instead and in researching it, East Coast to Europe we were quoted $11k. During the process, we happened across prices to Oz and it was only 2 to 3 times the price. Certainly nothin close to $150k (even with the exchange rate).

I'm not sure about the import taxes but those will carry thru with an imported mono anyway.

End comment: If you are looking at $20k 30' monos you are are probably looking at $25-30k cats of equivalent age and condition.
I actually paid $150,000-00 USD for my 2002 Gemini in 2011, in Fiji,
It cost me $140,000-00 USD as the exchange rate at the time was 107 cents to the USD.
I paid just over $14,000-00 on top of that for GST,
It also cost me about $3000-00 AUD for Pest control, Customs, and a few other things I forget about now,
The cost of shipping it to Australia by boat was $124,000-00 AUD at the time,
I got that in print from the shipping company,
Thats why I sailed it home, The shipping made it too expensive,

A year later, I shipped a 36 foot Mobile home here from the USA, That cost me $12.000-00, Roll on Roll off, For the shipping only.

I also cost me $2000-00 USD to have it driven from Texas to California so it could be converted to R/H drive,
The R/H drive, convertion, Gas and Electrics and a left hand door fitted to comply with Australian Standards, ARB,s cost $15,000-00, USD, In California,

Just the R/H drive conversion here starts at $32,000-00 AUD,
We do get gouged,


My 1989 Foretravel Grand Villa was $212,000-00 Brand new,
I paid $15,000-00 USD for it in Texas, USA,

Registered and on the road, The whole process cost me just on $70,000-00 AUD,

Mobile homes dont hold their value like boats do,

Why the massive difference in price for shipping, I have no idea,

Conjecture is great, So are Guesses, My friend told me so,Etc Etc,

But these are the actual prices I paid and I do have the receipts for all of them,
I got very good value for what I paid, for both of them,

I have no interest in Mono's what so ever,
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Old 08-10-2016, 22:43   #529
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

I can get a whole lot of monohull for 140,000$.
So why are we comparing 140,000$ cats to 20,000$ 30 foot monos?
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Old 08-10-2016, 23:56   #530
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Mr B: I'm not challenging that you paid those prices. I'm sure you did.

No friend of a friend stories. I got written quotes also for transport and I've bought 2 cats in the size range your talkin about in addition to following the pricing, so I'm pretty confident about the numbers also.

Lets just leave it at your experience and mine are drastically different.
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Old 09-10-2016, 06:52   #531
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Mr B-seeing you post reminds me- how are the repairs going (or are they done) on your Gemini? I remember a really unfortunate grounding some time back?


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Old 09-10-2016, 22:18   #532
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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Mr B-seeing you post reminds me- how are the repairs going (or are they done) on your Gemini? I remember a really unfortunate grounding some time back?


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The repairs are starting to go ahead now with a new repairer,
after 4.5 years with the last clod,
I took him to court and he has to give back my full deposit,which was half the total cost of the repairs,
All dry dock fees incurred for 4.5 years,
All my legal costs,
And they Voided the contract I had with him, Which is what I wanted and needed before I could get any one else to repair my boat,

The Mongrel is Bankrupt and I wont be getting anything out of him, The Sheriff has been down to seize any thing of value to sell to cover the 25 Grand he owes me, To no avail,
I put a post up in the Multihull Forums with Piccys and progress report on it,
It should be ready to go back in the water in January,Hopefully,
So maybe March I can cast off again,
Hanging out for it,
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:33   #533
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Good luck! What a nightmare- hope it ends well


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Old 12-10-2016, 14:45   #534
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Its easy for me to stay with monohull because I can't afford a catamaran.

The dock I keep my vessel at doesn't have any slips wide enough for a catamaran.

My observation is that the average speed over a voyage on a catamaran isn't that much higher than a monohull.




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Old 12-10-2016, 15:31   #535
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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We met an elderly couple in the early 90's who were circumnavigating on a Comanche. It took them 11 years on a $300 per month budget, but they made it.


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We are all open to believe whatever we want but 11 years at $300 per month?? If you don't include any repairs or maintenance and your $300 per month only covers food then somewhat believable but cruising for that long on $300 per month all in is unbelievable.
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Old 12-10-2016, 17:29   #536
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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We are all open to believe whatever we want but 11 years at $300 per month?? If you don't include any repairs or maintenance and your $300 per month only covers food then somewhat believable but cruising for that long on $300 per month all in is unbelievable.

That was their budget back in 1993. They were probably in their early 70's, never motored and only had meals and drinks onboard. The amount of their budget is what they told me so I passed it along.


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Old 12-10-2016, 22:46   #537
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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That was their budget back in 1993. They were probably in their early 70's, never motored and only had meals and drinks onboard. The amount of their budget is what they told me so I passed it along.


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I'm not suggesting that your not truthful, I'm simply suggesting that it's beyond belief and probably impossible.
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Old 13-10-2016, 00:01   #538
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Perhaps they meant that their normal living costs were 300/mnth, but did not include boat maintenance in the figure. It is hard to envision maintaining even a small and simple boat along with "living" for such a sum. Or perhaps at the end of the time, their boat was reduced to junk from lack of maintenance.

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Old 13-10-2016, 00:23   #539
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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We are all open to believe whatever we want but 11 years at $300 per month?? If you don't include any repairs or maintenance and your $300 per month only covers food then somewhat believable but cruising for that long on $300 per month all in is unbelievable.
If you only use the pick to moor with, No Marina's. Your boat is in good nick when you start off,
No motor=No cost for fuel and repairs,
Your sails at cruising speed should last ten years, Mostly they would be in the covers as you would be parked on a secluded beach some where, For most of the time,

A repaint of the hulls every 4 years, DIY, Laid over on a secluded beach some where, Its only the cost of paint, Say $800-00 works out to be $4-00 a week you put aside for it,
They are in their 70's, So wont be eating huge meals, Fishing would supplement their food bill, which would cost next to nothing for fishing gear,
Crabs, Oysters, Mussels, you pick off the rocks, Come for free, Cooked in a pot on a fire on the beach,
Fresh Food you get at local markets, which are every where, World wide, and its very cheap.

most repairs and maintenance are done as you travel or are moored, DIY,

What major costs are involved unless you actually break some thing, which is a rare occurance any way,

I eat very well, Including meat, which costs me $75-00 a week now, On my boat its even less, As I eat less,
My costs when sailing is Diesel, 3/4 of a US gallon an hour, I dont use the motor unless its to get up and down a creek,
I pull up on a beach, Walk across the road to a servo and buy my diesel in a jerry can,
My Boat rego which is $80-00 a year,
My internet which is 80 per month,
A can of silicone is $8-00 for the occasional leaks you might get,
A pair of shorts and a T Shirt and thongs is all you wear, They last for years,
I only use my Genoa for sailing, How long will that last, Ten years, $1500-00 put aside $3-00 a week for that to be replaced,
Pensioners dont have the costs involved earning a living,

1990, I was paying less than $100-00 a week to feed 2 adults and four kids, I know this because I did the shopping,
It took them 3 days to repaint the Hulls on this one,
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Old 13-10-2016, 00:53   #540
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

"I'm not suggesting that your not truthful, I'm simply suggesting that it's beyond belief and probably impossible."


I think you may be forgetting how inexpensive it was back in 93. Only a couple of years prior to that my gf & I got rt tickets to london for 300$. Gasoline was .93 us$/gl, ect & so on. Maybe that 300$ was their monthly "living budget" and they had a disaster fund as well...
FWIW, on that same trip we lived pretty well running around Europa on 1500$ for a months stay.. no hostels either, 2 & 3 star hotels all the way!

just sayin
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