Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-10-2016, 02:34   #511
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,707
Images: 4
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Mono hulls are 20 grand for 30 feet, Approx,
Multihulls are 150 grand, for 30 feet, Approx,

ll,
Did you mean 50k for 30'?



Sent from my STUDIO 5.5 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 03:11   #512
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 1,491
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos View Post
Did you mean 50k for 30'?



Sent from my STUDIO 5.5 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Prices in OZ, Overseas prices would be different,
__________________

__________________
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 04:41   #513
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,887
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
Mono hulls are 20 grand for 30 feet, Approx,
Multihulls are 150 grand, for 30 feet, Approx,
,
What comparable boats are you talking about?

A $20k mono is probably going to be 25yrs old an in need of significant work.

A $150k cat is going to be 5-8yrs old and in good condition.

Yes cats are more expensive per foot but no where close to the difference you suggest. Also, a 30' cat has the living space of a 35-40' mono.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 08:28   #514
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 15,391
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Yes. The money factor is there big way.

BUT

Why is this that a s/h cat that displaces 6 tonnes costs easily twice as much as a mono of the same weight?

Is the cost not related to amt of resin/glass used?

Is there so much more work involved in building a cat that this workload cost carries on to boats 20 years old?

Or is lead so cheap related to grp and balsa?

Or is there so much more demand for cats that the price is driven this high?

I look at many older cats and never stop to wonder how a pile of worn down plastic can be so outrageously expensive.

I can't remember if I have ever seen a nice cat for less than 100k. I have seen a Nicholson 35, fully refurbished asking 55k, yesterday.

Just wondering aloud.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 08:34   #515
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 1,491
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
What comparable boats are you talking about?

A $20k mono is probably going to be 25yrs old an in need of significant work.

A $150k cat is going to be 5-8yrs old and in good condition.

Yes cats are more expensive per foot but no where close to the difference you suggest. Also, a 30' cat has the living space of a 35-40' mono.
That last Quote of yours proves you know nothing of the interior space of a Cat, You need to really go and get on one, You will change your mind on that comment,

I paid 150 grand for my Gemini Cat in Fiji, 2002, Model, That was the going rate for them at the time, as the price in OZ for a cheap cat was 300 grand, Well above my finances,
My Cat was worth 300 grand as soon as I got to Australia, It had all the Bells and Whistles you can imagine on a boat,
I can pick up the same boat now for 80 grand,

The one I wanted here was 500 grand, A Seawind with rear doors on it.

My mate just paid 6 grand for a 25 foot Mono, No idea on how old it is, I didnt ask, Its also in good condition, The PO just wanted it gone as the cost of mooring it was killing him, Swing mooring in Geelong,

I was on a 25 foot J boat learning how to race them, They informed me they were worth 20 grand in good nick,
I was put on a 30 foot Benetue as the J boat owner wanted racers on his and he said his boat was worth 20 grand, It was in good condition, No Idea on the age of that one either, I wasnt interested in it,

4 foot wide cock pit and the steering wheel used the whole width of it,
It was cramped, four people in the cock pit and it was over crowded,
The thing was leaning to one side all the time, Very uncomfortable,
Tiny bench seat along both sides of the cockpit,
How you can put to sea in one of those things is beyond me,
Made me glad I lashed out and bought a Cat,
Down the very steep ladder, They were still cramped for space,
Table in the middle and a squeeze to get past on either side, The table was leaning over, You cant put any thing on it, It would slide off, Single beds along the sides,
Single handed, It would be very difficult, as you have to get up the steep stairs and Through the skinny hatch to get to the wheel,
You cant see any thing outside from down below,

Your totally exposed to the elements 24/7, I dont call that fun or reasonable, or a good way to travel, It would be very exhausting even with self steering on it,
Who wants to sit in the cold rain or ocean spray, 24/7, Even on a sunny warm day, Your still getting wet from the ocean spray,
Get real, Mono's are great fun day sailors, For extended cruising, Forget it,
They would be good for live aboard tied to the Marina, Permanently,
I also see a lot of posts where the Mono owners have to go the the toilet and showers at the marina, or get the Pump out boat to visit,



Sitting in my salon, which seats six comfortably at the table, Its four steps to the Cockpit and standing at the wheel, and all instruments in front of you, and no steps to climb,
Sitting in my salon, I have all round vision on whats happening out side the boat,
It has windows I can see out off, 360 degrees,

The cockpit seats 5 people comfortably and the captains chair makes it six people, Removing the captains chair which is just a matter of lifting it up, Its a clip on bench seat, makes room for seven people sitting comfortably, and plenty of leg room, Eight with the captain standing at the wheel, But with Self steering, No one needs to stand at the wheel, So we will settle for seven in the cockpit,
Plus the six sitting comfortably at the salon table,
and the three sitting comfortably on the hammock,
Thats 16 people sitting comfortably on my boat, Are all on the same level,

The three bedrooms are totally empty and there is no one in the galley, Which is down three steps, both sides, one the galley and the other side is my workshop,
The workshop or starboard side is 3 feet wide and 12 feet long, and shower cubicle is not included
The galley and bedroom side is 3 feet wide and 16 feet long,
The two bedroms in the rear of the hulls are not included in the floor space I mentioned, you can add another 8 feet to the length of each side for them,

I also have room for three more sitting comfortably on the transom hammock,
I also have three bedrooms, Two Doubles and a Queen size main bed in the bedroom,
I also have a totally covered in Cockpit which I can remove in the tropics or in summer here, I still have a permanent Bimini over the cockpit, So I am never exposed to the elements, No matter how bad the weather gets,
I also have two hot and cold showers, masticating Dunny, Tank or over the side,


I was quite surprised as I did think they were worth a lot more than that,
These are the prices I was informed off,
Unless they were telling me lies, Which I dont think they were,
Whether they are accurate I have no idea and I dont give a rat arse about it,
A boat is worth how much some one is prepared to pay for it, Irrespective of age and condition,
Or what you think your boat is worth,
I did say Approx, You can pay more, you can pay less,
American boats are half the cost of Australian boats, Thats why I bought one overseas and sailed it back,
Same cat, Same options had been added to it, Same price, It was in San Diego, But 12,000 miles to sail it home, Was a bit much even for me, For my first Ocean Voyage,

I went out on a 30 foot Benetue from Yaringa, Western Port bay, He said his boat was worth 20 grand also, I didnt like his boat either, It was also very cramped for space and moving around on it was a PITA,
Seven boats tied end to end as you cant tie them up side by side, They rub the crap out of each other, Damaging them, you need a dinghy to visit each others boats when they are tied together,
Where as Cats can be tied together side by side, they have straight sides, With no damage, and you can walk from one boat to another across the boats,

I also have a two foot draught and can park on a sandy beach when the tide goes out, It is seven feet draught when I am at sea, It winds up and down, From inside the hulls, three turns on the handle, and its up or down,

My Cats only 14 feet wide, The bigger cats are 26 feet wide, They have huge amounts of extra room than I do,
One Piccy is my Salon, The other is my Hammock on the transom, The cock pit is in the middle of these two,
The main bedroom is the same width as my salon and is on the other side of that bulkhead,
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	376.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	419.0 KB
ID:	132534   Click image for larger version

Name:	337.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	418.7 KB
ID:	132535  

__________________
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 09:02   #516
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,887
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
That last Quote of yours proves you know nothing of the interior space of a Cat, You need to really go and get on one, You will change your mind on that comment,

I paid 150 grand for my Gemini Cat in Fiji, 2002, Model, That was the going rate for them at the time, as the price in OZ for a cheap cat was 300 grand, Well above my finances,
,
Odd that we need such advice considering, we've lived on a Gemini for 10yrs in the USA and recently picked up a Catalac 10m in Spain (a bit older but both at a fraction of the price you are claiming)....

By the way, you could have bought a 2002 in the USA and paid to have it shipped to OZ and still probably saved $40-50k. Sure there is a convenience factor buying local but for that kind of savings...

And this all ignores the idea you are going to pick up a comparable mono in similar condition for $20k.

And yes, for interior living space, the Gemini would be comparable to a 40' boat only not a cave.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 09:27   #517
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Paper Tiger 14 foot, Gemini 105MC 34 foot Catamaran Hull no 825
Posts: 1,491
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Odd that we need such advice considering, we've lived on a Gemini for 10yrs in the USA and recently picked up a Catalac 10m in Spain (a bit older but both at a fraction of the price you are claiming)....

By the way, you could have bought a 2002 in the USA and paid to have it shipped to OZ and still probably saved $40-50k. Sure there is a convenience factor buying local but for that kind of savings...

And this all ignores the idea you are going to pick up a comparable mono in similar condition for $20k.

And yes, for interior living space, the Gemini would be comparable to a 40' boat only not a cave.
I priced shipping a Gemini to OZ by ship, It was $124,000-00 AUD,
Plus the cost of the boat on top of it, Plus 10 % GST, No duty applicable as we have a free trade agreement with the US,

I bought my Gemini in 2011, It was the best of the lot with all the gear on it at the time,
I just had a quick look at prices on various Mono's and Gemini's, Wow, The prices fluctuate wildly,
But there are still good bargains out there, Depends on how much the owner wants to sell, and what options have been added,
The 20 grand Mono's are what the owners told me, They would know what their boats are worth,
The age of them would make a big difference, As I am not interested in Mono's, They dont do what I want them to do, Sitting on a beach with the tide out,

Cheers, Brian,
__________________
Mr B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 09:34   #518
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Boat: Shopping
Posts: 354
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Odd that we need such advice considering, we've lived on a Gemini for 10yrs in the USA and recently picked up a Catalac 10m in Spain (a bit older but both at a fraction of the price you are claiming)....

By the way, you could have bought a 2002 in the USA and paid to have it shipped to OZ and still probably saved $40-50k. Sure there is a convenience factor buying local but for that kind of savings...

And this all ignores the idea you are going to pick up a comparable mono in similar condition for $20k.

And yes, for interior living space, the Gemini would be comparable to a 40' boat only not a cave.
Valhalla and Mr. B, I think you two are in violent agreement as to the benefits of a cat.
__________________
Cottontop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 09:43   #519
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 7,912
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottontop View Post
Valhalla and Mr. B, I think you two are in violent agreement as to the benefits of a cat.
yesh.. and its dishgustin' to observe!

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 10:38   #520
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: galveston tx.
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 2,885
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yes. The money factor is there big way.

BUT

Why is this that a s/h cat that displaces 6 tonnes costs easily twice as much as a mono of the same weight?

Is the cost not related to amt of resin/glass used?

Is there so much more work involved in building a cat that this workload cost carries on to boats 20 years old?

Or is lead so cheap related to grp and balsa?

Or is there so much more demand for cats that the price is driven this high?

I look at many older cats and never stop to wonder how a pile of worn down plastic can be so outrageously expensive.

I can't remember if I have ever seen a nice cat for less than 100k. I have seen a Nicholson 35, fully refurbished asking 55k, yesterday.

Just wondering aloud.

b.

Here's one for less than $50,000! I'm sure it's not everyone's cup of tea, but they are solid boats.
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61642


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
smj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 13:45   #521
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,887
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottontop View Post
Valhalla and Mr. B, I think you two are in violent agreement as to the benefits of a cat.
Agreed, except he is overstating the costs of a cat by a large margin and has a crazy low assumption for the price of monohulls of equivalent age and condition.

We actually considered shipping our Gemini to Europe before buying the Catalac instead and in researching it, East Coast to Europe we were quoted $11k. During the process, we happened across prices to Oz and it was only 2 to 3 times the price. Certainly nothin close to $150k (even with the exchange rate).

I'm not sure about the import taxes but those will carry thru with an imported mono anyway.

End comment: If you are looking at $20k 30' monos you are are probably looking at $25-30k cats of equivalent age and condition.
__________________
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 14:01   #522
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 15,391
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Here's one for less than $50,000! I'm sure it's not everyone's cup of tea, but they are solid boats.
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/61642


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
The problem is we mostly sail crossings and I am extremely scary, conservative and over read (as a coinage to extend 'a well read').

I could like a boat like this once in the West Indies BUT I would be scared to death to undertake a crossing in one.

My friends did, though. They shipped her back to the EU on a ship. Now wonder why.

I am still in the blank as to why boats built of comparative amount of material can differ in price so much.

There must be some plausible explanation.

Anybody?

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 14:07   #523
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Boat: Shopping
Posts: 354
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post

I am still in the blank as to why boats built of comparative amount of material can differ in price so much.

There must be some plausible explanation.

Anybody?

b.
Occam's razor says, "Supply and demand."
__________________
Cottontop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 14:14   #524
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: galveston tx.
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 2,885
Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
The problem is we mostly sail crossings and I am extremely scary, conservative and over read (as a coinage to extend 'a well read').

I could like a boat like this once in the West Indies BUT I would be scared to death to undertake a crossing in one.

My friends did, though. They shipped her back to the EU on a ship. Now wonder why.

I am still in the blank as to why boats built of comparative amount of material can differ in price so much.

There must be some plausible explanation.

Anybody?

b.

We met an elderly couple in the early 90's who were circumnavigating on a Comanche. It took them 11 years on a $300 per month budget, but they made it.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
smj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 14:31   #525
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 18,605
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
The problem is we mostly sail crossings and I am extremely scary, conservative and over read (as a coinage to extend 'a well read').

I could like a boat like this once in the West Indies BUT I would be scared to death to undertake a crossing in one.

My friends did, though. They shipped her back to the EU on a ship. Now wonder why.

I am still in the blank as to why boats built of comparative amount of material can differ in price so much.

There must be some plausible explanation.

Anybody?

b.
That's why there's delivery skippers..
Owners are often comfortable coastal sailing long distances however open ocean does not appeal.. mono or cat.. makes no odds.
Others lack the time.. or if in a well paid occupation they can earn the fee x 2 or 3 over the delivery period with no risk or discomfort.
As for taking a Comanche W to E.. no big deal at the right time.. more comfortable than a 26ft mono..
__________________

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Click on de Pic 4 de Site^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hull, monohull

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Removable Cutter Stay vs Solent Stay Orchidius Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 16 30-06-2014 03:36
St Augustine - To stay or Not to stay alsobrsp Atlantic & the Caribbean 1 17-01-2013 13:07
For Sale: Stay sail, Storm Sail, & Head Stay MoonlightSailor Classifieds Archive 1 18-12-2009 11:27
For Sale: Stay sail, storm sail, & head stay MoonlightSailor Classifieds Archive 0 31-10-2009 17:25
Removable Stay(sail) or not to stay... jcmcdowell Monohull Sailboats 8 27-08-2004 15:30


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.