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Old 02-04-2016, 21:04   #31
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Have no first-hand observations in SE USA despite the impression given here that most chartered boats there are cats and the feverent defense of cats on this forum. Please forgive. Five-percent would be "pushing" it here on the western coast.
Contrary to Robert Sailor's statement, I was not thinking your statement was expressing a bias against the SE USA. No forgiveness is needed and no offense taken! I do think there are a number of fervent "cat" owners, but most of us don't take the Monoull vs. catamaran debate to heart.

There are some big catamaran chartering outfits in the Bahamas and the Caribbean, but not in the Southeast USA. Most in the US are individual day charters and a few sunset group tours in Miami or Key West. The large charter fleet operations simply do not exist in Florida like those that are in the islands.
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Old 03-04-2016, 02:04   #32
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Jadam79,

On the issue of New South Wales and Queensland bar crossings.

We definitely plan our arrivals to occur around high water slack (especially where there is a lot of impounded water on the land side of the bar), preferably in good visibility. Quite often there will be a string of yachts, multis and monos, because generally speaking we all like favorable conditions. They draw around a meter to 1.5 m., mostly. Our 2.2 m. is only a little more, when we are in coastal/ocean conditions. However, I can surely see how they might be less concerned with depth than I am.

At the end of the day, the issue of bar crossings would not be a decision maker for me, I want to spend my life in a boat that I find comfortable. The catamaran guys feel that way about their cats, and so do i, about my mono. It's all personal choice.

One consideration you might want to address if you choose a cat and also want to do higher latitude sailing, is how to heat it, because they tend to have a lot of "glass" astern, which allows a lot of heat transfer. But, see, that's the deal, choose what you like better or you think is better for the job, according to your own thoughts.

Something i do not know about cats is whether they can be set to self-steer to windward, just by trimming, and maybe the ones with dagger boards can. It can be useful when/if the autopilot quits working.

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Old 03-04-2016, 03:17   #33
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Interesting reading, I myself am on the same path as the author of this thread. The choices are endless and everyone has different needs. At the moment Im swaying more towards a 50ft-55ft Mono.
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Old 03-04-2016, 04:57   #34
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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I'm asking this here vs a more "vs" question on the cat side of things

I am just starting to actually align my life with long distance sailing/living aboard. Whereas in the past few years I have just been dreaming. ..
Adam J
Fact is that no matter the money or sailing experience some sailors prefer cats other prefer monohulls.

Cats are more expensive on maintenance and initial price and pay more on marinas.

Also in what regards long distance sailing and regarding seaworthiness a small monohull is more seaworthy than a small cat. if you chose a cat for that type of long range voyaging it makes sense to consider 36/38ft as a limit and most that do that chose cats between 44 and 60ft.

If nothing of that is determinant for you in what regards money implications than the obvious thing to do is during your learning period to charter catamarans and to charter monohulls.

For that comparison to be fair you should charter monohulls and multihulls with an approximated market price and that means you would be sailing on a bigger monohull and a smaller cat.

Only that will tell you what type of boat you will favor for what you want to do.
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Old 03-04-2016, 05:29   #35
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

In addition, the best performing cats (at least in my limited knwoledge) require a very tough stance on bringing weight on board. While it's good practice for every sailor to be concious about adding weight, the normal apparatus and stores for cruising can have a much more detrimental impact on a cat. This does come from the perspective of a person who prefers a small boat, and small cats (30ish feet) just don't work for me in terms of headroom and performance once fully loaded.
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Old 03-04-2016, 05:29   #36
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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Be aware that this forum is biased toward catamarans. Seems mostly a SE USA and European preference.
I've never found this forum to be biased toward cats - just some members that are, and some of those have a very strong opinion As there are some members that seem (overly) bias toward mono's.

Cats a European preference? Hardly - there aren't many around. Most of them are probably in the Med, which is a very small part of the Europe.

We had 2 cats in our marina, which is 2 more then in most But with the new owner simply charging them 1.5 times the new, high prices (regardless of size), they're leaving.

And this is not the only marina that doesn't really know where to put or how to charge cats - they're too rare, most marinas by the 'standing mast route' never see more then the occasional cat as a visitor for the night -- if that.

Since the OP doesn't want us to consider costs -which makes no sense as it's a huge consideration- there's little point in me saying that's exactly why I changed my mind about maybe switching to a little cat.

Apart from the costs tho there's also the ... I don't know how to call it, the feeling of being connected to the wind & waves. Sailing a mono, I reef when the boats behavior tells me it's time. On a cat, you keep an eye on the wind meter. And as a cat owner told me: mono's roll, cats bounce (for lack of a better word). He's still not sure which he (dis)likes more in the end.

He loves his cat, but he's honest about missing a lot of the typical mono "downsides" and will be going back to a mono when they are done cruising. The only reason they're on a cat is living space, but, as he says, that space doesn't come cheap. And by that, he's talking about a lot more then just the expenses.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:01   #37
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

I think you really do need to consider one's budget in this discussion. In reality it is the same question, mono vs cat, at different price points. You need to describe what you want to do with the boat - coastal cruise, hang out in the Caribbean, circumnavigate - and then specify a budget, primarily for purchase but also for upkeep, potential dockage costs, etc. Then you end up with a more specific question, such as:
- I have $50,000 and want to spend my time in the Eastern Caribbean - mono or cat?
- I have $100,000 and want to circumnavigate - mono or cat?
- I have $500,000 and want to live aboard in the United States - mono or cat?

At various price points the choice can become quite obvious
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:05   #38
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Some cats have all around performance better than monohulls of similar length. We've raced enough to know that we sail with the 38 ft mono crowd pretty competitive. When the wind really pipes up. It's bye bye to them.

At anchor, it's no contest as to which provides more room. Sit in the saloon of my seawind with it raining outside and it's a joy to look around and not feel stuffed down in a hull.

None of the marinas we ever stayed at charged more for a cat. Monohull for a 35 ft slip, we got a 35 ft T head or end tie. Same cost.

Takes two minutes to hook my dinghy and motor up on davits and lift from water. Engine never comes off. Are you doing to do that on a 33 ft monohull? Oh, and targa bar has solar panels on top the keep fridge running all the time and cover all power needs including the dc watermaker. The only reason we carry a Honda gen is to run the air conditioning, which we have not on this trip, and the Honda gen still has a dry gas tank.

Crossing over to Bahamas a few days ago, rough seas, I sure liked having the hardtop surrounding me. While the off watch slept there on the settee available to help if needed. In rough conditions, I don't want to be stuffed in a hull.

Yeah, I agree that there are some monohulls that have much nicer lines and more aesthetically pleasing. Some of the new design cats I think are must flat ugly. But on the list of things want in a boat, pretty is not in the top four.

I am sitting here in an Anchorage now watching the monohull on anchor move back and forth, while we sit still on our bridal.

Oh, and we are loaded with two months of provisions, beer, cokes, dinghy, kayak, all chain rode, and we were still sailing solid mid 7 knots speed thru water, and mid 9 knots over ground with the gulf stream. Boat has a watermaker, we carry a Honda generator, and the starboard hull has full air conditioning (although we only run it on marinas).

This design works great for us. Decide how you are going to use your boat and then see what works best for you. We had a Beneteau three boats ago. I don't miss the healing.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:10   #39
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Cost: As the old marketing slogan goes...perception is reality. When you account for equivalent space, speed, etc...the costs are't much different. The issue is many buyers decide they want a 40' boat and then see the cost of 40' cats vs 40' monos and decide monos are much cheaper so they stop considering cats.

History: This is a two part
- The 50-60yr old sailors who represent the typical cruising boat buyer (new boats) grew up sailing monos. It's what they are used and what they are comfortable with. A large percentage struggle with the idea that cats don't go turtle at the slightest whiff of a breeze (as if mono's won't wind up on th bottom in conditions that flip a cruising cat)
- Closely related is the used market. Since fiberglass came into common usage, boats last a really long time. So even though cats are making good headway into the new market, it takes a long time for the used market to show a similar breakdown.

When you take these items out of the equation, the only item where monos hold the advantage is the "traditional feel". (this assumes similar design approach for the boats being compared. Ie: don't compare a racing mono vs a luxury oriented cat and claim a mono has the performance edge)
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:26   #40
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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...................
....................
- The 50-60yr old sailors who represent the typical cruising boat buyer (new boats) grew up sailing monos. It's what they are used and what they are comfortable with. .............................
.............
This is quite an insightful and valid thought from valhalla; however, I think this may change over the next decade. The new 50-60yr old sailors will have grown up sailing many of those 14' and 16' Hobie cats.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:26   #41
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Cost: As the old marketing slogan goes...perception is reality. When you account for equivalent space, speed, etc...the costs are't much different. The issue is many buyers decide they want a 40' boat and then see the cost of 40' cats vs 40' monos and decide monos are much cheaper so they stop considering cats.

History: This is a two part
- The 50-60yr old sailors who represent the typical cruising boat buyer (new boats) grew up sailing monos. It's what they are used and what they are comfortable with. A large percentage struggle with the idea that cats don't go turtle at the slightest whiff of a breeze (as if mono's won't wind up on th bottom in conditions that flip a cruising cat)
- Closely related is the used market. Since fiberglass came into common usage, boats last a really long time. So even though cats are making good headway into the new market, it takes a long time for the used market to show a similar breakdown.

When you take these items out of the equation, the only item where monos hold the advantage is the "traditional feel". (this assumes similar design approach for the boats being compared.. ..
You should read that thread about guys that owned cats and changed for monos. If what you say was true none of them would have changed.

The truth is that some sailors prefer cats other monohulls and regarding the reasons that thread give you some insight regarding why most prefer monohulls.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:32   #42
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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This is quite an insightful and valid thought from valhalla; however, I think this may change over the next decade. The new 50-60yr old sailors will have grown up sailing many of those 14' and 16' Hobie cats.
I think you are seeing a shift and I think it will keep shifting.

I'm not sure how much a hobie cat will play in. They have been around for a long time and if anything work against the adoption of large cruising cats as they propagate the myth that cats flip all the time.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:34   #43
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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At anchor, it's no contest as to which provides more room.
Do cats shrink when not anchored? I always thought they always provided more room then a mono, regardless of being anchored or not
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:39   #44
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

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You should read that thread about guys that owned cats and changed for monos. If what you say was true none of them would have changed.

The truth is that some sailors prefer cats other monohulls and regarding the reasons that thread give you some insight regarding why most prefer monohulls.
I've read that thread. I was talking in market terms and averages.

There is always the special case or the exception but looking from the larger scale, it's true.

For comparison, I'm sure you can find people who have switched to traditional wood boat construction but looking at it from a market point of view no one is expecting a shift back to wood boats.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:27   #45
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Re: Reasons to stay "Monohull"

Yeah, I started sailing in late 30's, owned and raced various beach cats, then the Beneteau, corsair 24, corsair 28r, and now the seawind. Purchased the seawind at 50 yrs old. Now 57 yo. Retired. Cruising Bahamas at the moment. Prob be back in Texas late June. Then we will just primarily day sail her until the next season.

That's another thing. As much as I lust after a seawind 1160 lite, I wouldn't want to have a boat that big for my wife and I to daysail. Our 33 ft boat is big enough to carry the stuff we need for cruising, but small enough to dock easily, clean etc.
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