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Old 18-08-2014, 14:52   #76
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Re: Rate That Boat

[QUOTE=Panamax.;1608092]Jimsavinier,

1. I plan on sailing in the Puget Sound a With a dream of Alaska some day.
Get a powerboat - I've been part way there and know several who have been all the way there and back in a sailboat. Unless you go up and down outside Vancouver Island (been there-done that & do not recommend it in a smallish sailboat) and sail off shore the BC coast then it is all a motorboat ride.

Friends in a Sundeer 60 (big fast great offshore) did Gig Harbor-Juneau round trip over two years. Motored 90% of the time and they do like to sail and are good at it.


2. Sailing is important. Do not envision large crowds of guests...mainly a friend here or there.
A Nauticat or Fischer pilothouse are not sailboats.
Sailing in Puget Sound (I sailed there a LOT 1972 - 2000) is frustrating because the wind is almost always up or down the sound. It is great for racing but no so much for cruising UNLESS you are content to do cross sound trips when the wind is right AND sail north in front of the SW storms and then head south in front of the clearing winds on a high.

I kept very detailed logs of my sailing 1995 - 2000 in my Caliber 40. We sailed out of Tacoma and made many trips south to Olympia and as far north as Nanaimo. I owned my business and could sail almost any time I felt like it so I sailed when the wind was right. We also have big light air sails. Even given that - we motored over 40% of the time. Currents and tides are a big factor in that %.

You really need to decide what kind of sailing you wish to do - racing, day sailing and short trips over to Bainbridge/Vashon or harder bashes north to Port Townsend and the San Juans or south to Gig Harbor and Penrose.


3. Not critical.
Draft is what makes you go upwind

4. Weekender with occasional week trips for vacations....then more when we retire.
Maybe you should buy a fun daysailor today that has some minimal accommodations for an overnight or two at the dock in Eagle Harbor or Kingston and then, in a couple years and a couple dozen overnight trips, get a bigger boat that will be good for a week or two. After dozens of shorter overnight trips and a lot of sailing you will know what you really want.

5. Used. Can't afford new within the size range I am looking for.

6. Not a lot of opportunity to do a lot of work up front. Work keeps me quite busy. But I am willing!
Inexpensive boats (less than $100K) = much work by new owner) OR buy smaller an newere

7. No blue water desire as yet.

So....what does your crystal ball say? Will a Nonsuch 30U cut it?
Nonsuch is a great boat - I know a couple who cruised a Nonsuch 36 from San Franciso thru Mexico for two years, then two years in the Caribbean, and a couple more up to Chesapeake bay.


HERE 1982 Tartan 42 Ocean Cruiser sailboat for sale in Outside United States is your boat!!

I sailed Caretta (the boat for sale in the link above) around Puget Sound for a year then to San Diego and Western Mexico and then back to San Diego in 2000 - 2001. My brother bought her in Jan 2000 and restored her to better than new. The current owner in Vancouver BC put a small fortune into her in the last few years.

The perfect cruiser for Puget Sound for less than $80,000

- strong
- very strong
- incredibly fast in light wind - we easily went upwind in 4 - 6 knots anywhere in Puget Sound and could usually do 75% of true wind at an apparent angle of 38 degrees
- fast and stable downwind (we rounded Cape Mendocino in her in 50 knots and 12' seas and had one of the best days of sailing in my life)
- great short handed boat - my brother single handed her in Mexico for six-months
- fun to sail - We crossed from Sydney to Port Townsend in 25 gusting to 50 knots and had a hoot surfing at 13 knots with just the two of us
- cutter rigged - see two stories above - reefed main and staysail doing 10+ knots for long periods

- nice aft owners cabin
- good sized galley
- big V-berth for guests

- lots of sails
- strong Perkins engine
-beautiful Cherry woodwork

- very well equipped. She has been to Mexico three times and as she currently sits; you could head down there again tomorrow.

I lived aboard with my brother for up to 3-months at a time and there was plenty of room.

Two couples that I spent years with while cruising in Mexico each had a Tartan 41 which is the same hull and rig but a different interior arrangement. The 41 was the SORC (Southern Ocean Race Circuit) campaign boat that Tartan built from 1976 - 1980.

The 42 was the "cruiser" version where they put in more interior niceties and build an aft owners cabin. The sailplan and rig was identical between the 41 and 42.

My Caliber 40 has big light air sails and in 5 knots true the Tartan 42 or 42 would disappear over the horizon in an hour. The Tartan is fast and fun!

I have no interest in the boat and have not seen her in 12 years but my brother stays in touch with the current owner and has helped plan many of the recent upgrades.

It is probably the best possible boat you could buy for Puget Sound at $80,000
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Old 18-08-2014, 19:43   #77
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Re: Rate That Boat

Thanks Tacoma!


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Old 19-08-2014, 05:33   #78
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Re: Rate That Boat

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Originally Posted by TacomaSailor View Post

A Nauticat or Fischer pilothouse are not sailboats.

I've heard that. Or perhaps the more positive glass-half-full statements have indicated the Nauticats do better in decent winds, just not so great in light air.

At your speeds, I wouldn't even notice a knot or so less, here or there; it's all slow to me. Not a bad thing; I like slow most of the time. I just can't discriminate much between 5 kts and 6 kts

Anyway, I've always been intrigued by Nauticat's older-style pilothouse cutter-rigged ketches.

-Chris
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Old 19-08-2014, 06:14   #79
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Re: Rate That Boat

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Nice courteous try sir but while we always feel free to move on with or without permission, we are also free to comment on the relative value of a question, particularly one well-known to cause trouble like this one.

My own thought is that it's foolish to try to retrain your wife. Eventually, you'll be buying a powerboat, sailor. I'd do it now and begin to enjoy life in yer dotage rather than go thru the hard knocks that lie ahead with the sailing and expensive maintenance on a vessel you won't be keeping long and very likely be motor-sailing much most of the time anyway, if you're like most everyone else; and very long odds say you are.

A sturdy single engine trawler with bow thrusters and a washing machine can be had in your price range and is guaranteed to keep mama happier than any ragbag of equivalent size.
Blue Crab has it right. My very minimal time on the water in SE Alaska I only saw sailboats with hard dodgers, or pilothouse, rarely with a sail up. We traveled on a steel full keel schooner with no sails (makes a great trawler). I would go with trawler given cruising area (30% weigth) and wife's attitude (70% weight, otherwise you'll be singlehandling).


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Old 19-08-2014, 13:02   #80
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Re: Rate That Boat

Thanks for your service. Retired Navy here too.

I sailed with CelestialSailor on his Hallberg Rassey Rasmus 35 from San Diego to La Paz this last winter. It is a good quality boat. I've owned a small Catalina and it is a bit better quality than the cheaper production boats.

You have so many choices but since you are moving from power to sail and trying to convince the Mrs. that sail is wonderful I'd pick a boat that has a very good running diesel inboard. You'll be doing a lot of light wind sailing so don't go for an extremely heavy boat. If you are comparing Catalina, Pearson, Columbia etc. I'd go for the Catalina. If you are comparing Hunter, Beneteau, Jeaneau I'd still go for the Catalina because you'll get it for cheaper. It's the Chevy of the brands.

If you decide on getting serious about a specific boat then come back here and ask about that specific brand because you'll find very pointed comments by previous owners and sailors who have sailed them.

By all means pick a boat that there are many of in your area. They'll be the bargains and the ones you can find riggers, mechanics and service persons for.

Good luck in your boat shopping it is a very fun position to be in.

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Old 19-08-2014, 20:08   #81
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Re: Rate That Boat

Thanks Skiprjohn for your service. CWO4 MSO437, FF1058, AOR5, CG63, DDG62...oh....and a couple of shore commands.

The advice you have provided is awesome and appreciated. Will keep you in the loop on my journey.


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Old 19-08-2014, 20:45   #82
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Re: Rate That Boat

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Originally Posted by Panamax. View Post
Thanks Skiprjohn for your service. CWO4 MSO437, FF1058, AOR5, CG63, DDG62...oh....and a couple of shore commands.

The advice you have provided is awesome and appreciated. Will keep you in the loop on my journey.


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You've got a good list of ship creds. I only hit the last three stations as CMC. Started on DEs in the 60s. Many and varied stations and ships. Just a word to the wise (which I consider any Warrant Officer) is that the Navy was not like any civilian boating community. You'll find lots of folks considering themselves admirals with very little or no experience and then you'll find lots of very knowledgeable folks who consider themselves just ok seaman. Have to sort it all out as you go. For the most part the folks who post here on CF are good people and bring lots of experience to the table.

Whatever boat you decide is the right one for you just make certain you get a marine surveyor to check it out and make certain it has been very well taken care of.

kindest regards,
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Old 20-08-2014, 05:37   #83
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... Whatever boat you decide is the right one for you just make certain you get a marine surveyor to check it out and make certain it has been very well taken care of. kindest regards,
This is such critical advice. You don't want a fixer-upper. Find a boat that was taken care of and smile when you pay the extra dough. Best money you will spend.
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Old 20-08-2014, 11:28   #84
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Re: Rate That Boat

I own a hunter 37.5, 1989. I love her, and so does my wife, three kids, and two dogs. We sail Chesapeake bay and up to block island. There is tons of stowage, and a huge amount of living space. We live on her for weeks at a time. Most importantly, she sails very well, and is easy to single hand. I usually have a reef in to keep her on her feet when the wind is more than 15knots, and she holds steady at 6.5 to 7knots. She is very simple, too. No complex systems to deal with. She has been a great mix of performance and comfort for us. I used to sail a 15ft Chrysler mutineer across the bay.

Ben


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Old 21-08-2014, 10:45   #85
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Re: Rate That Boat

Guess I killed the thread. Sorry 'bout that.



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Old 21-08-2014, 11:14   #86
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Re: Rate That Boat

Rather open ended question. Perhaps looking at what others have sailed in those waters might be a simpler starting point.

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Old 21-08-2014, 17:18   #87
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Cruisers Forum 101

[QUOTE=bensolomon;1610769]Guess I killed the thread. Sorry 'bout that. [QUOTE]

You should have seen it coming Ben. Here's what the OP asked:

Please rate the following sailboat brands from best to worst:

Catalina
Hunter
Benateau
Delphia
Jeanneau
Sabre

Comments appreciated....oh! And say I wanted a nice 30-38 foot cruising sailboat for the Puget Sound and North to Alaska...what would you buy?


Your answer ignored the question:

I own a hunter 37.5, 1989. I love her, and so does my wife, three kids, and two dogs. We sail Chesapeake bay and up to block island. There is tons of stowage, and a huge amount of living space. We live on her for weeks at a time. Most importantly, she sails very well, and is easy to single hand. I usually have a reef in to keep her on her feet when the wind is more than 15knots, and she holds steady at 6.5 to 7knots. She is very simple, too. No complex systems to deal with. She has been a great mix of performance and comfort for us. I used to sail a 15ft Chrysler mutineer across the bay.

And worse, simply gave your opinion and so forth for sailing on the Chesapeake with one particular boat, and a tender one at that, and it appears you're saying that your creds are pretty good based on sailing a daysailor across the bay on occasion. (And I am not making light of the accomplishment.)

If, on the other hand, you'd said you were born in Juneau or somewhere and had sailed that jaggedy-assed, cold-assed coast up there for 50 years before deciding to go find a woman in Seattle, and there was no better boat than a Hunter 37 for those unforgiving waters ... at least then we'd have had a good laugh, you'd have gotten several thank yous, and everyone wins.

It was a two part question, and IMO should never have been asked in the first place, but if you're going to jump in, make it count, Cap.

I don't know poop from peat moss but I cannot offhand think of a worse boat for the OP's hoped-for voyage other than a Hunter 31 with a bent rudder shaft. I am however, very happy for you, wife, kids, and so, in love with yer boat, but the only thing Alaska has in common with Annapolis is the "A".

Jes' sayin'. Peace brother.
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Old 21-08-2014, 19:52   #88
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Re: Rate That Boat

Blue crab,

Well put. That said, Philosophically speaking, I believe if you are a good sailor, and love your boat, and know your boat, you can sail anywhere. I evaluated many feature charts, stat tables, SAD ratios, Length ratios, etc. Then, my 42 year old best friend had a stroke that took him out. I learned at that moment that tomorrow is a blessing, and is not guaranteed. I stopped analyzing, and got a boat.

I suppose that is what I was trying to communicate without saying as much. I agree with everything you said about my post. Alaska IS tough, no doubt. But....if by analyzing, the OP loses the opportunity to realize their dream, then it was for naught.

My experience in general....I have sailed a 1980 hunter 32 through a gale in New England. I have sailed a jeanneau 32across the Aegean from Athens to Turkey with just me and my wife during the Meltemi and even got knocked down in 50knot winds and 20 foot seas. I have been in a squall in my 15 ft mutineer in Lake Champlain with clocked winds of 40 knots, with just my daughter and I. I have also sailed a few Beneteaus through some storms, but nothing real bad. In my current boat, we hit an awful squall in the bay...the curtain of rain, wind and sea came down, hard! In all of that, the boat took it better than we did. In the real bad stuff, knowing the boat and loving the boat kept us safe and brought us home.

If I could afford an IP or Hylas Or Hanse, I would have bought one. As it turned out, I found this boat and I fell in love with her. Honestly, my only point, which I should have clearly stated was don't wait for the "perfect" boat. The opportunity to go may get lost in the analysis.

As always, I truly appreciate the opinions expressed in these forums. Such a wealth of knowledge!! I am always in awe......

Thanks,

Ben




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Old 21-08-2014, 19:59   #89
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Thanks Ben. Good post.
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Old 22-08-2014, 06:58   #90
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Re: Rate That Boat

Thanks bensalamon. Hunters are on the list for today's shopping trip.


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