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Old 16-08-2014, 21:22   #46
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Re: Rate That Boat

26 yrs in the Navy should have provided you with a thicker skin. I'm a novice and have been reading this forum for a long time. Once you are here a little bit longer, you will get a feel for the contributors on this site. Do your homework, didn't strike me as a reply because you asked a stupid question. The fact is, these guys see and answer these questions over and over again. Sooo, they may have fun with it, but mainly because, their opinions all have merit. Some are forged in the non production built like a tank sailboat, while others have successfully sailed all over in the "weaker" production line boats. Doesn't mean either one is right/wrong, just means their opinions are different. And unlike the military, in a public forum, opinions are freely spoken Especially so when asked a question. Anyway, I believe all will tell you the same. It is your decision ultimately and no matter what anyone tells you, you will at some point make your decision based on your own values/opinion.

Good luck in your search. In my unworthy opinion of just reading years of opinions, the Sabre would seem to be the strongest built of those listed. But I remind you, that is solely based on reading what others have expressed. Owners of the models you have listed will undoubtedly defend their boat choice, and they should. They were asking the questions you are asking at one point and decided on their boat based on the info they obtained.

Oh, my Drill Sergeant in boot camp told me the first day, "I'll give you you're opinion when I want it".

Again good luck and don't take any reply personally
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Old 16-08-2014, 21:30   #47
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Re: Rate That Boat

Thicker skin of course, and also a low tolerance for....let's just say reduced patience. In any case, I appreciate the constructive criticism....and the advice. Thanks.


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Old 17-08-2014, 01:29   #48
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Re: Rate That Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panamax. View Post
Please rate the following sailboat brands from best to worst:

Catalina
Hunter
Benateau
Delphia
Jeanneau
Sabre

Comments appreciated....oh! And say I wanted a nice 30-38 foot cruising sailboat for the Puget Sound and North to Alaska...what would you buy?



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Putting the Sabre into that list is like adding a Mercedes to a list of Chevy, Fiat, Ford, Peugeot.

I've sailed a lot on all except the Delphia and I don't recognize that name. They all can get the job done, depending on what the job is, but the Sabre will always be the best.

My dockmates sailed their Sabre 42 from Seattle roundtrip to Maui in the Vic-Maui race and then sailed from Seattle to Annapolis over the next five years. It is a splendid rock solid boat. It is in an entirely different class than the other boats.

I've cruised in Western Mexico with Catalinas, Hunters, Beneteaus that came down from Seattle or Vancouver. There is no doubt a careful and competent captain can sail any of those boats almost anywhere.

Puget Sound and north to Alaska - any boat will work that has
- a dependable diesel 'cause it is motoring all the way in very strong tides
- a good heater for the cabin
- a good and big dodger to protect the crew from the cold damp air and rain
- big anchors with lots of rode
just my opinion based on 25 years sailing/motoring those waters
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Old 17-08-2014, 06:10   #49
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pirate Re: Rate That Boat

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... Hope that's enough info. Questions welcome and encouraged. However, if your intent is simply to point out how stupid my question is, please feel free to move on. Thanks to you all for your comments!
Nice courteous try sir but while we always feel free to move on with or without permission, we are also free to comment on the relative value of a question, particularly one well-known to cause trouble like this one.

My own thought is that it's foolish to try to retrain your wife. Eventually, you'll be buying a powerboat, sailor. I'd do it now and begin to enjoy life in yer dotage rather than go thru the hard knocks that lie ahead with the sailing and expensive maintenance on a vessel you won't be keeping long and very likely be motor-sailing much most of the time anyway, if you're like most everyone else; and very long odds say you are.

A sturdy single engine trawler with bow thrusters and a washing machine can be had in your price range and is guaranteed to keep mama happier than any ragbag of equivalent size.
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Old 17-08-2014, 06:45   #50
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Re: Rate That Boat

Thanks Tacoma and Blue. Excellent advice.

For Blue, I have seriously considered your train of thought. However, other than our current 21ft Maxum runabout, that has no business in salt water (bought to sate the wife) , my power boat experience is exceptionally low. That may be why I have not yet seriously examined that option. Do you have recommendations as to what I might take a look at?


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Old 17-08-2014, 07:14   #51
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Re: Rate That Boat

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Thanks Tacoma and Blue. Excellent advice.

.... Do you have recommendations as to what I might take a look at?


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That's an easy one: have a look at a Hallberg Rassy 352 and I am pretty sure that's what you will be most happy with...

...and my advice: stay away form the ones you've listed first.

Some alternatives I might consider:

- HR 312, HR 38
- Contest
- Sweden Yachts
- Sunbeam
- Najad
- Moody
- Comfortina

mhm, well: that might be a little too Europe centered, but it'll be probably worth bringing one over...
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Old 17-08-2014, 07:38   #52
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Re: Rate That Boat

Looked up the Hallberg Rassy 352. Even the wife likes that one. Thanks. What makes it such a good choice?


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Old 17-08-2014, 08:02   #53
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Re: Rate That Boat

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Looked up the Hallberg Rassy 352. Even the wife likes that one. Thanks. What makes it such a good choice?


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My English is not perfect, but I try to explain as good as I can:

The first boats you listed are mostly mass production boats. That means they were built in a way that they could be put on the market for very competitive prices. HR (and most Scandinavian producers) produce in much smaller scales with the main focus on quality and not so much on cost reduction.
You can feel that with any cabinet door you open - it's from very nice wood and it works very smoothly. Same goes for the rigging - choices were not made regarding the price but the functionallity. They just take more attention to details and durability. That makes those boats considerably more pricy than the others, but I guess a 1982 HR 352 you can probably get for the price of a 2002 Jeanneau 35' and I would always take the first.
Also the mass production boats are made with focus on spacious cabins as they are vastly produced for the charter market. The quality boats tend to be built for fewer people per foot and you usually have more space on the deck and on chart tables, pantry...
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Old 17-08-2014, 08:04   #54
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Re: Rate That Boat

Thanks...and your English is perfect.


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Old 17-08-2014, 08:48   #55
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Re: Rate That Boat

Funny thing heard tonight talking with middle management of a bare boat charter company(in the club). Their words not mine .."boats built for charter may have basic equipment, but the hulls are laid up heavier especially around the keels. It could have some merit?

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Old 17-08-2014, 09:42   #56
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Re: Rate That Boat

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"boats built for charter may have basic equipment, but the hulls are laid up heavier especially around the keels. It could have some merit?
Well, these charter boats are built heavier than a racing or performance boat. As nobody expects extreme performance from a charter cruiser, there is no need to focus very much on weight reduction. Thus they profit from being tougher than a boat that is meant to be fast, as well. That does not mean that they are built tougher than a quality cruiser.

Therefore, if your boat falls off the crane you might prefer it being a Beneteau than a X-Yacht. But you would still be more comfortable it being a Najad, HR or alike.
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Old 17-08-2014, 14:06   #57
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Re: Rate That Boat

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Originally Posted by alingher View Post

Well, these charter boats are built heavier than a racing or performance boat. (...) Thus they profit from being tougher than a boat that is meant to be fast, as well. That does not mean that they are built tougher than a quality cruiser.

(...)

if your boat falls off the crane you might prefer it being a Beneteau than a X-Yacht....

(...)
Wrong, on so many levels.

Heavier DOES NOT IMPLY tougher.

1) Racers/performers are lighter AND stronger. They are tougher.

2) Damage when falling off the crane will be proportional to the mass of the structure. Reverse proportional to its strength. Again the racer/performer wins.

I have never seen structural problems on an X-Yacht, I have seen countless issues on Bavarias, Benes and their likes.

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Old 17-08-2014, 14:44   #58
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Re: Rate That Boat

Well, this is about the quote from this charter guy who said that charter boats are built heavier around the keels. And yes of course, in this regard heavier means tougher. Whereas Beneteau tries to save weight with a First they would not do that so much with an Oceanis. That's why the latter are stronger around the keels. That's most likely what this charter guy was talking about.

And yes of course I'd prefer a cruiser (may it even be a Bavaria) falling from a crane than a racer. That's because of the simple fact that a racer hasn't much of a margin in its construction.

I was obvoiously explaining the advantages of quality boats before, but I also remember well the lacks of the X-99s...
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Old 17-08-2014, 16:58   #59
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Re: Rate That Boat

Now we are rating boats by which one falls off a crane better?

This place is too much

Methinks you folks are comparing apples and bananas...
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Old 17-08-2014, 18:30   #60
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Re: Rate That Boat

Here in the PNW, I'd suggest taking a look at Columbia's. Stoutly built, not an expensive brand, and plentiful in these parts.
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